Quoting: const

Quoting: slaapliedjeOne thing I will go ahead point out. Native Linux games vs Proton ones usually have a better go out of the box for gamepad support to just work. I have had a few through Proton that were just not detecting the gamepad at all.

Definitely something that needs fixing for this!

One thing that Valve recommends for Proton compatibility is implementing SteamInput, which should be really good for gamepad support. It's not like all Ports magically have great gamepad support :)

SDL2 kind of makes it so they do. :)

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Valso

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: ValsoYou would have saved the most of the troubles you had, if you had used Arch instead of Mint. Ubuntu, Mint and Debian need an enema in order to make them run any game, not just the VR.

You're skating awfully close to this (excellent) GOL rule:

Distribution wars that have plagued the Linux community are not welcome here. Bans will occur for people who engage in them or talk down to anyone for their choice.

You can find a link to the rules above the comment box.

Also, you're commenting on a year-old article about problems that by all accounts have since been solved. Just in case you didn't notice.

It wasn't my intention to start any war. I used Mint for almost 4 years, so what I said was based on my experience with it.

Each distribution has it's own quirks, and benefits and disadvantages. I've never really used Mint as it's Ubuntu based, and well I've just had issues with Ubuntu, both technical and their NIH syndrome. But you're in correct in stating that they need an enema. I can't even remember the last time I had to do anything on a debian based system (that includes Ubuntu/Pop_OS) to get SteamVR working besides enabling the 32bit architecture repo, enabling the repos for the nvidia drivers (contrib and non-free in Debian) and then installing Steam. Games work perfectly fine after that, as does SteamVR.

Just for the record, I use Mint and I've never had any problems with any of that stuff. F'rinstance, Steam installs from the Software Manager with a click. Maybe if you can't even remember the last time you had anything to do with a debian based system, and have never used Mint ever, you should consider your opinions on the subject might lack authority or relevance and, you know, not give them.

Did I bash Mint?

Yeah, I kind of think you did. And you know, I don't give much of a damn what that other person says, don't know them from a hole in the ground. But from you it kind of stings.
Just by the by, I've tried Ubuntu, not so long ago. The user experience of Mint is really quite a lot different, so saying that because you can't hack Ubuntu you presume Mint sucks by extension is somewhat off base.
It's true though that if you want/need to fiddle everything yourself and make sure you have all the latest and greatest and bleedingest edge all the time, Mint isn't really going to give you what you want. If you just want a nice desktop that works, though, it's very good. Every time I try another distro I find myself with little pain points that I'd forgotten tended to exist on Linux, until I give up and go back to Mint.

The English language is really stupid. But what you have to understand is, English isn't a language. It's two main languages plus chunks of a few others all smoorged together fairly violently. Old Anglo Saxon, French, Norse, Latin, scraps of Gaelic and Greek and who knows what. So there's bits and pieces of a bunch of different languages' pronunciations and grammar rules jammed uneasily side by side and falling off now and then. It's absurd--amazing the damn thing works at all. Means we have stacks of vocabulary, though, which is good for poetry.

Ha, all I said was I don't really use Mint as it is Ubuntu based (the funny thing is, even they admit that may have not been the best decision, so still keep a LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition) in the works just in case Canonical decides to make things difficult.

My two desktops are Debian Sid and Arch Linux. I mostly use Gnome, and really play with Arch just to see how the bleeding edge looks. Reason I haven't really used Mint is I don't feel the need to, as Debian does what I need it to, and if I want to play with Cinnamon, Mate, etc, I can just apt install it and play with it in Debian. I feel their repositories are a bit more stable than Ubuntu's and as Mint pulls from Ubuntu... I do use Pop_OS, which is also Ubuntu based, and up until this latest release they didn't totally mess up Gnome (Like Ubuntu does), but now I'm kind of thinking of changing away from Pop because of it....

Totally didn't mean it as a slam against Mint. I just tend to not use Ubuntu based distributions. Mint is a good one, as they do realize that they may need to switch to Debian. I think if System76 had more resources, they may also consider switching to Debian.

I do find it hilarious that everyone things Debian just has old packages... they may have years and years ago, because when they release a stable version it stays that way for 2-3 years. But they mostly have been releasing new versions about 1.5-2 years now, and with the backports officially supported, you get plenty of modern backports. Ubuntu's development cycle is release, 5 months of testing, 1 month freeze, release... and they spend another month patching up the worse bugs... This is because they pull from Debian Sid and then freeze, which Sid is in flux... it's also kind of terrible when Debian goes into a freeze and new packages aren't tested very well, and Ubuntu pulls from that, and it gets messy. Better to just use Debian with your favorite desktop and either do rolling or stable, at least it has been for me for years.

Looks like I'll be upgrading my server in August sometime to Bullseye!

But no, I apologize if you thought I was trashing Mint, I literally said I don't really use it. I only use Pop_OS because they integrated the hybrid graphics crap the best that I've seen so far within the gnome power management stuff. If others would do similar I'd probably switch away from it as well. Mint and Pop_OS though both do not force snap packages on you. Another great thing they're doing. Canonical wants everyone to just use Snaps. This is what I meant by why I don't use Mint. And I also will probably move away from pop_os as soon as I can find time to clean up my laptop, and find a better way to deal with optimus crap. It isn't because they're bad NOW, but could potentially be messed up from a decision Canonical makes.

And I have many reasons why I don't really like them. I'm not trying to distro bash, I just don't like the way they are headed, and some of the things they've wanted to do (drop 32bit support for example).

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Quoting: scaineEven slaapliedje's comment about Canonical having NIH syndrome mildly riles me. NIH is literally the basis for Linux. It's why we have 100+ media players, 20+ desktop environments, 10+ package mangers.... Frankly, it's why we have 2000+ distributions. But for some reason when Canonical do it, they're the bad guy? Why? In fact, make that a rhetorical question - I don't care why anyone thinks they're the bad guy, but please just don't spill your vitriol in this community. We're (hopefully) better than that.

The thing is, they try to do their own things that everyone else has established as the standard. One exception is they did have a new start up before systemd came along. Otherwise, Wayland.. Mir, Gnome... Unity.. Instead of helping out the projects and making them better, they decided they should do their own thing and waste resources and in the end give up and go with what everyone else is doing.

Hell, Microsoft contributes to the Linux kernel more than Canonical does. You know... maybe if people could work better together, we wouldn't have 100+ media players, we'd have one really kick ass one 'Killer App' that most operating systems have. Like Photoshop, etc. Anyhow, I was just giving my reasons for not using Ubuntu and preferring to use Debian. I was all for Ubuntu when their purpose was to just do a 6 month release of Debian with latest Gnome. They strayed far from that and now I'm just not interested in it.

Sorry for mildy riling you up.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Valso

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: ValsoYou would have saved the most of the troubles you had, if you had used Arch instead of Mint. Ubuntu, Mint and Debian need an enema in order to make them run any game, not just the VR.

You're skating awfully close to this (excellent) GOL rule:

Distribution wars that have plagued the Linux community are not welcome here. Bans will occur for people who engage in them or talk down to anyone for their choice.

You can find a link to the rules above the comment box.

Also, you're commenting on a year-old article about problems that by all accounts have since been solved. Just in case you didn't notice.

It wasn't my intention to start any war. I used Mint for almost 4 years, so what I said was based on my experience with it.

Each distribution has it's own quirks, and benefits and disadvantages. I've never really used Mint as it's Ubuntu based, and well I've just had issues with Ubuntu, both technical and their NIH syndrome. But you're in correct in stating that they need an enema. I can't even remember the last time I had to do anything on a debian based system (that includes Ubuntu/Pop_OS) to get SteamVR working besides enabling the 32bit architecture repo, enabling the repos for the nvidia drivers (contrib and non-free in Debian) and then installing Steam. Games work perfectly fine after that, as does SteamVR.

Just for the record, I use Mint and I've never had any problems with any of that stuff. F'rinstance, Steam installs from the Software Manager with a click. Maybe if you can't even remember the last time you had anything to do with a debian based system, and have never used Mint ever, you should consider your opinions on the subject might lack authority or relevance and, you know, not give them.

Did I bash Mint? I only said I don't use it as it is based on Ubuntu... I don't like Ubuntu either, though assuredly I would prefer Mint / Pop_OS, as both are not attempting to shove Snap packs down everyone's throat. I only use Pop_OS because it seems to treat Optimus the best I've seen out of any distribution out there.

And yes, if I really want to use the software store, I can do that too, I just prefer using apt, as it's faster, and well I've been using Linux for close to 25 years now, and have distro hopped many times, and always end up back in Debian's loving arms. Also get irritated when people pronounce it wrong... Deborah and Ian Murdock... Deb-Ian. I've heard it pronounced Deb-EYE-an, and I know the Gamers Nexus guy on Youtube was saying Dee-bian..

Then again, I was watching a video on Valheim and heard the word Hearth pronounced as Hear-th... I say it occasionally to a friend who also watched that video and we both laugh. Granted we all have words we've read and never heard spoken that we were hearing in our heads wrong. English language is kind of stupid :P

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Quoting: Valso

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: ValsoYou would have saved the most of the troubles you had, if you had used Arch instead of Mint. Ubuntu, Mint and Debian need an enema in order to make them run any game, not just the VR.

You're skating awfully close to this (excellent) GOL rule:

Distribution wars that have plagued the Linux community are not welcome here. Bans will occur for people who engage in them or talk down to anyone for their choice.

You can find a link to the rules above the comment box.

Also, you're commenting on a year-old article about problems that by all accounts have since been solved. Just in case you didn't notice.

It wasn't my intention to start any war. I used Mint for almost 4 years, so what I said was based on my experience with it.

Each distribution has it's own quirks, and benefits and disadvantages. I've never really used Mint as it's Ubuntu based, and well I've just had issues with Ubuntu, both technical and their NIH syndrome. But you're in correct in stating that they need an enema. I can't even remember the last time I had to do anything on a debian based system (that includes Ubuntu/Pop_OS) to get SteamVR working besides enabling the 32bit architecture repo, enabling the repos for the nvidia drivers (contrib and non-free in Debian) and then installing Steam. Games work perfectly fine after that, as does SteamVR.

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Quoting: Jozua

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: elmapulunpopular opinion...
they should make their next game... linux exclusive.
otherwise people will keep seeing windows as capable of doing everything linux does, while they dont see linux as capable of doing everything windows do.

it need to be at least temporary exclusive.

It is an unpopular opinion - exclusives are generally horrible, and pretty much anti-Linux - we're the crowd that loves choice and freedom after all. But. BUT. It's extremely frustrating to have Sony (playstation), Microsoft (on their store, and with xboxxonexone, or whatever they're on these days), Nintendo (switch) and Epic... ALL push exclusives, but apparently Valve is meant to be above it all? Really?

I mean, Valve are the good guys, right? So therefore they're "not allowed" to push exclusives? Ever? Even a timed-exclusive?

A part of me actually wants them to play dirty - level the field. But then another part of me remembers when they made a single hat accessory for Team Fortress a Linux exclusive (you had to play TF2 under Linux to unlock it) and... wow. The anger, the vitriol, the sheer hatred over that. An unlockable hat. Jesus. I suspect it actually helped turn diehards away from Linux, rather than towards it.

I'm still torn though. So frustrating to see every other player use every dirty, anti-consumer trick in the book, but Valve are held to a higher standard.

I totally agree with this. It would be great to see Linux exclusives (or, for most people, "Steam Deck exclusives"), but it would also be something bad as in for freedom and choice. I'm torn too.

Funny thing is, if the Atari VCS manages to get any exclusive games, they would be Linux exclusive (as it's pretty easy to copy one of the games from it and slap it onto a Linux desktop and play it).

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One thing I will go ahead point out. Native Linux games vs Proton ones usually have a better go out of the box for gamepad support to just work. I have had a few through Proton that were just not detecting the gamepad at all.

Definitely something that needs fixing for this!

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Quoting: Jozua

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: JozuaOoh, if there is a way to load the Steam Buddy tool onto this and easily import GOG games... that would be absolutely amazing.
This is actually everything I wanted as a gaming system. Dockable too!

It is just Linux on there, so I don't see why you couldn't load up anything that works on Linux. I think it might be time for Lutris to get a BPM mode as well.

Yessssss Lutris making a BPM mode would be so awesome!
Also by the looks of it the main interface in SteamOS3 looks pretty slick... I hope they update the Steam client with that BPM eventually too :smile:

There is a post on the steam community forums saying that they are indeed bringing it to normal Steam.
I hope they add 32:10 support...

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Quoting: Corben

Quoting: subWhich is kinda sad but I have a hard time with Alyx already. :/

Aww, also when using teleport instead of locomotion?

I do have issues with locomotion myself, but I also learnt it depends on the game. Boneworks for example causes heavy motion sickness after 1.5h - 2h, and I have to sit down, stop playing and the sickness still lasts for quite a while.
I have no isses at all with teleport though, there I could play for hours and hours, without any issues.

But there is the VR mod for GTFO, where you also only have locomotion. And this is done so well, I can play the game for several hours without any issues.

This could either mean, I kinda got used to locomotion now (haven't touched Boneworks in a while though), or the way locomotion is implemented in GTFO VR is way better than in the other games I tried so far.

Back to topic though: Valve also has to release another VR game! *please*

Not sure if anyone has replied to this yet, as I haven't had time to read through all the pages... but anyone remember that Valve said they had 3 VR games in development... Alyx is just the first...

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Quoting: s8as8a

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: s8as8aDoes anyone know if the Steam Deck can boot an OS (or at least a GNU/Linux OS) from a memory card?

Also, does anyone know if the Steam Deck can boot an OS (or at least a GNU/Linux OS) from a USB drive?

Also, does anyone know what the maximum memory card size that can be used with the Steam Deck is?

Well, you would have to ask Valve that as there isn't any out in the wild... but I would hazard a guess that at least USB seems logical. Depending on the SD card reader used, that would answer your other questions. I have never known a laptop that could boot off an SDCard, but I think it would be a cool feature. Make you feel like an old time console, where each 'cart' was a game. Imagine an AmikitDeck distribution on an SD card (minimal footprint instead of a liveUSB stick. Same reason I hate that Gotek went with USB instead of SDCard...)

I asked because people in the community sometimes notice things that I don't, so I thought it was worth asking just in case.

Having said that, thanks for your answer. :)

For what it's worth, in a handful of years, when my financial situation hopefully gets better, I'm thinking of getting one and booting Debian from the memory card (directly or indirectly, see below) and to use the internal memory as a cache (via LVM), so that it feels like a large and fast drive (at least, for frequently-accessed data).

Perhaps, if and when the time comes, assuming that I can't directly boot from a memory card, I can put a 1 GB boot partition on the internal memory and use the rest of the internal memory as the cache, and have the boot partition instruct the OS to boot from the memory card?

Hell, you could probably make a 1mb partition and just put grub into it, with it pointing to the SDcard for the boot. It's EFI likely, so should be very easy to do something like that.

Would be pretty funny if the EFI didn't support secure boot, so specifically blocked Windows 11 from working... or missed TPM 2.0, etc.

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