Quoting: whizse

Quoting: slaapliedjeI am hoping they get into the Debian repos at some point, as you still need to add the OBS repo for it.

Possibly you already know this, but it's packaged (together with goverlay, vkbasalt and mangohud) but currently waiting for a sponsor to upload:
https://mentors.debian.net/package/lutris/ [External Link]

I did not know that, thanks!
It is funny, on my Thinkpad p52, I tend to use Pop OS as there are some nice conveniences with how they set up the nvidia optimus stuff. But I always end up going back to Debian on my main system. But System76 is doing some awesome work on their distro, and including Lutris in the repos and removing snap are just two of the other ones.

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Quoting: minfaer

Quoting: slaapliedjeI don't run the latest drivers, like ever. I grab what the distro gives me. https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-driver [External Link] Or I can even pull from experimental https://packages.debian.org/experimental/nvidia-driver [External Link] which currently has 455.38. Tiny bit behind, but still supports the RTX 3xxx cards. So yeah, much easier than AMD.

But if Your distro has the most recent proprietary packages of NVidia in their repo, but not the same for AMD, how does that mean the vendors are behaving differently?

I can only hazard a guess that the AMDGPU pro drivers are harder to package, or under a non debian friendly license.

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Quoting: SalvatosI was just looking at some PinePhone videos last night after learning that the Librem 5 was shipping soon and it seemed really slow. I hope the Librem 5 will do better in this regard but there aren't as many videos showing it off.

Still too rich for my blood either way :(

Still waiting for my Librem 5... sadly the PinePhone isn't really supported in the USA... :( Much like the SailfishOS phones. I miss using my Nokia N9 and N900... Amazingly didn't feel like I was constantly being spied on / advertised to with them....

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Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: slaapliedjeSo I really WANT to support AMD as I believe that the hardware should all have open source drivers. I just want it to be easier to do so without compromising convenience and stability by adding third party repos or compiling custom libraries.

But how is easier Nvidia? AMD is offering exactly the same options on release as Nvidia does right now (on you want to tell me that, for example, you can get Nvidia 455.45.01 on day one from an official repo on any distro?). If you want to get the latest driver, almost on every distro you will have to do some extra step.

I don't run the latest drivers, like ever. I grab what the distro gives me. https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-driver [External Link] Or I can even pull from experimental https://packages.debian.org/experimental/nvidia-driver [External Link] which currently has 455.38. Tiny bit behind, but still supports the RTX 3xxx cards. So yeah, much easier than AMD.

Also did discovery that nvidia now has an official means of installing for RHEL/Cent and Fedora, so you don't even need rpmfusion anymore (well unless you want 32bit support, doesn't seem like they care about that, as they're more focused on the drivers being used for server side stuff, as you know that's how they make their Linux money.)

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This was a sadly forgotten genre of games for too long, glad more games like this are being made. I mean Dungeon Master on the Atari ST created this fantastic genre, and I always thought it would work very well in VR. Sadly the few attempts I've seen so far at making one work in VR is missing the one feature I think it should have, the ability to pick up items off the ground and chuck at oncoming creatures! I mean who didn't walk around in the dungeon carrying a rock or arrow or something and chuck it at stuff?

I will say the few games that are like this in VR are pretty nice, I just think they need to be more interactive. I want to push the button and hear and 'feel' the portcullis open!

Something like Vaporum would be AWESOME in VR... Especially with how good the sound is. I still need to beat the first game, but I'll be buying the sequel for sure (I may have already done so, I have so many games I don't even remember most of the ones I have....)

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Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: slaapliedjeYes, I know what all of that is. I've been using Linux for 20+ years at this point. I also vividly remember the hassle I had of trying to get the one AMD system I ever owned to work. Either the fglrx wouldn't compile with newer kernels, or the open source driver had shit performance. I was hoping this situation had improved, but it doesn't seem that way.

1) official repos don't have it (debian sid)
2) I try to avoid third party repositories because they tend to break shit
3) AMDGPU-PRO linux package is not available for any Debian system.
4) Compiling myself is what I try to avoid.

So yeah, there are pros and cons to how AMD does it and how nvidia does it. Most distributions seem to favor the nvidia method, otherwise they'd take the AMDGPU Pro drivers and put them in the repos.

Most distros doesn't favor Nvidia method, they just add their drivers because is the only way to make that hardware work (the "easiness" of Nvidia drivers is 100% thanks to the work the community does). And if you buy the latest Nvidia hardware, you are forced to use a third party repository, just like with AMD if you get their latest GPU. In the end, both delivers the same but AMD gives more options and more freedom.

You don't have to use a third party repo with Debian. Literally just have non-free repo enabled. Sure if you run Fedora/rhel/cent you enable rpmfusion and you can get the packages. Most *buntu distros have nvidia packaged for them as well.
It has been years since I bothered downloading the nvidia driver from them or any other repo.
And as stated by others, nvidia has their own OpenGL/Vulkan drivers so I haven't needed to mess with mesa for a long time. Nvidia also supports their older cards for much longer than AMD/ATI has in general.
So I really WANT to support AMD as I believe that the hardware should all have open source drivers. I just want it to be easier to do so without compromising convenience and stability by adding third party repos or compiling custom libraries.

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Quoting: ShmerlDebian testing is close to Debian unstable, with only difference that packages go through some consistency process first (so unstable can be broken more often). So both are semi-rolling.

Yeah, from my understanding it goes like this.

Package enters Unstable, stays for 10 days, if no bug reports are created, and dependencies all work, it is moved to testing. Once it enters Freeze, new versions of packages don't get pushed down to Testing and only bug fixes get applied until the release team is happy that there aren't release critical bugs, then a release happens and Testing becomes the next release and a new Testing branch is created and Unstable gets a bunch of broken stuff. It has varied a bit over the many years, but that is usually the only time dependencies become funky in Unstable.

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Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: slaapliedjeNo, it's more about getting a current mesa build. DKMS is easy. Though from my understanding is it shouldn't be needed with the AMD as it's in the kernel instead of needing a separate thing (though for the non-kernel driver you mention, sure the dkms would work).

I'm not sure what you mean here. Hopefully this will clarify your picture:

AMGPU: It's the AMD driver module that lives inside the kernel. You can update it by getting the latest stable/unstable kernel in your distro or by installing it as DKMS (the latter is what I mean by "installing it from AMDGPU-PRO").

Mesa: these are userspace libraries/drivers that implements graphics APIs (OpenGL, Vulkan, etc.). You can get a version by several ways:

• From your distro official repositories


• Third party repositories


• AMDGPU-PRO linux drivers package


• By compiling them by yourself (this step includes dealing with dependencies!)

So, getting the latest Mesa build is fairly trivial now days and the same can be said in order to get the latest kernel (at least in the majority of distros). IMO, any user that wants to setup his system for the latest Nvidia GPU will probably have to deal with both issues as well (with the difference that he may have to avoid some Linux kernel versions).

Yes, I know what all of that is. I've been using Linux for 20+ years at this point. I also vividly remember the hassle I had of trying to get the one AMD system I ever owned to work. Either the fglrx wouldn't compile with newer kernels, or the open source driver had shit performance. I was hoping this situation had improved, but it doesn't seem that way.

1) official repos don't have it (debian sid)
2) I try to avoid third party repositories because they tend to break shit
3) AMDGPU-PRO linux package is not available for any Debian system.
4) Compiling myself is what I try to avoid.

So yeah, there are pros and cons to how AMD does it and how nvidia does it. Most distributions seem to favor the nvidia method, otherwise they'd take the AMDGPU Pro drivers and put them in the repos.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: MohandevirFrom what I heard from another user, couldn't Debian testing be considered a rolling release? Might give it a shot, eventually.

For the most part it's rolling. During Debian freeze period that precedes the release it's not.

There are some options for updating key components during the freeze though.

Yeah, I run Debian Sid. Only really becomes unstable when they do the temp freeze on testing and that short period after a new stable comes out (as a huge amount of packages get flooded in).

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Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: slaapliedjeWith AMD being kernel based and needing latest Mesa, hardly anyone really packages those unless you want to make your system less stable and are into the whole ppa things. or you start compiling things from source, which I'm not exactly keen on doing for just the graphics card to work. You almost need to be running a rolling release like Arch to be able to just pop the card in and have it go.

I told you this before: you can install AMDGPU dkms using AMDGPU-PRO package release. You don't need a rolling release, having the driver in the kernel has nothing to do with the "problem" you mention. And if your point is that having a dkms driver makes your system less stable... well, that's exactly what happens with Nvidia.

No, it's more about getting a current mesa build. DKMS is easy. Though from my understanding is it shouldn't be needed with the AMD as it's in the kernel instead of needing a separate thing (though for the non-kernel driver you mention, sure the dkms would work).

Edit: Also of note, Debian doesn't seem to package amdgpu as dkms. They even have OpenRazer dkms packages, but not any radeon / AMD ones (last Radeon one I can see is from Jessie and is the fglrx one, which is ancient).

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