Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: slaapliedje... why shift everything around and try and base it off something else?

You should ask that to PL Griffais or TTimo, but that's what their comments are pointing at:

I wouldn't expect much more movement on Debian-based Brewmaster at this point

Why specify "Debian-based" if it's not relevant and is not an important aspect?

This and a comment from PL Griffais on Twitter, during the Ubuntu 32bit debacle, which I can't find anymore, about the future of Steamos... Something along the lines: "We are looking for our options, but we are tired of working with Debian tooling."

Quoting: slaapliedjeProblem is so many games in my library don't play correctly with a controller, so I end up spending most big tv time playing on the PS4.

I must be getting old... Sitting in front of my desk to play games is something I don't like anymore... I long for my couch. From the day I put my hands on my Steam Controller, K+M and gaming in chairs have lost all appeal to me; when a game requires K+M, I just don't play it, more often than not. This and the fact that I have a lot of tearing issues with my Nvidia GPUs that makes me switch to the SteamOS-Compositor (SteamOS' BPM DE) where I get an awesome experience with or without VSync (no full composition pipeline that causes micro stuttering required). But I still prefer Steam to any console because it's not hardware locked.

Have fun however you wish to play, no matter the Linux distro that you wish to use. :)

I remember the Debian tooling comment, but if I recall it was by one guy, and someone else had followed up with them not liking how the packaging tooling was, but that it was fixed/better in newer versions.

SteamOS already went through a transition of maybe being Ubuntu based, but went with Debian for licensing reasons, or at some point that is what we were told. Makes sense to me, Debian is a great all around base for things and is easy enough to swap out the parts you need newer versions of.

It is too bad the Steam Controller doesn't get more support from developers than it does. I love mine so much, I bought 3 of them.

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Quoting: Creak

Quoting: aokamiI'm going to upgrade my FX-8350 for a Ryzen 7 Gen 2 as well, haha.
Would you go with a X570 motherboard ?

Well, I finally bought my new CPU: Ryzen 7 3800X (only 50$ more expensive than the 3700X).
So I went with the X570 eventually, and honestly, for now, I can't complain.
To support it, I took the Asus X570 TUF-Plus motherboard and some 16 GB of Corsair RAM @ 3600MHz.

Be careful: and I think this is true to any motherboard supporting DDR4, the base RAM clock is 2133MHz. DO NOT increase the memory frequency from the BIOS "Advanced" menu (I did that, got a permanent black screen and thought I bricked my machine), instead, use the "Ai Tweaker" menu and change the memory frequency there. I don't remember exactly but it was very simple in the end, one thing to change, like "Best frequency" or something, and it worked out-of-the-box.

Ha, I have been far too lazy on all my builds to bother overclocking things, my systems in general run fast enough to where I doubt I would notice. Back when I used to do it, for some reasons it always felt slower.
It is like buying third party parts for an old 302 Boss, you end up with it performing worse than the stock parts!

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Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: slaapliedjeTheir priorities switched to getting the Index out. I mean Debian is already well on their way into getting version 11 out, and SteamOS is sitting at 9 if I recall. 10+backports gives you a really great and stable operating system, with newer packages.

No doubt, but it seems quite clear that whatever SteamOS 3.0 will be, it won't be pure Debian based. To some extent, they could even decide to include all the critical SteamOS' components (Gamescope they now call it?) into the Steam client and let the user decide if and on which distro he wants to install them. All of that with a tick box.

It isn't clear at all, and why shift everything around and try and base it off something else?

Don't they already let the user decide what distro and people just install that distro's steam package?

I mean I don't run SteamOS because I have no need for it. I run Steam off my desktop and have Steam Links, or even now. Raspberry Pi4 for playing on my big screen. Problem is so many games in my library don't play correctly with a controller, so I end up spending most big tv time playing on the PS4.

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Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: alkazarSteamOS is "stable" but has terrible game compatibility these days since new games come out and even old games get updated. Proton has lots of problems on SteamOS and recent versions of emulators can't even be compiled for it anymore.

Quoting: dubigrasuSteamoS is unfortunately no longer relevant. Is just a distro that we used to know (ahem).

Makes me wonder why Valve didn't yet decide to call it a day, like they did with the Steam Machines, and pull the plug on the SteamOS Brewmaster page (or at least remove the download links) and wait for "Clockwerk" (whatever that will mean) to make a comeback.

In the meantime, GamerOS is doing an awesome job! :wink:

Their priorities switched to getting the Index out. I mean Debian is already well on their way into getting version 11 out, and SteamOS is sitting at 9 if I recall. 10+backports gives you a really great and stable operating system, with newer packages. It is the fiest version of Debian that I actually have just stuck with stable and not gone with Testing or unstable. Though on my personal desktop I am still an update whore and like seeing 50 new updates a day, haha.

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Quoting: BrazilianGamer

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: BrazilianGamer

Quoting: WorMzy

Quoting: BrazilianGamerDebian is the market standard.

What market are you talking about? Red Hat is the industry standard and has been for a long time. IBM didn't buy them for no good reason. :P

If you read my comment again, you'll see I was talking about applications. Not hegemony in servers. In servers there's no doubt Red hat wins in a landslide. But still, when companies or individuals think about creating any application, the first distro they know they have to support is Ubuntu or any other debian based distros in general. Simply because they are the most used therefore, popular and of course, there's a bigger chance of revenue if it is a paid software or just to have a bigger userbase.

The crap thing about that is Ubuntu trying to move away from Debian packages, and instead to adopt their own Snap package management. I get that Ubuntu wants to try to make themselves special, but all that does is make them less stable, and less wanted. So many developers in the past have made excuses not to support Linux because of all the variations, but for years it has basically been Debian+RPM based systems. Any of the other distributions have people smart enough to convert packages from deb/rpm. But then Red Hat comes out with Flatpak, that everyone adopts... except Ubuntu, who decides to push snap...

Sorry, rant over. We will see how much the next few Ubuntu releases screw the pooch.

That's the good and bad of Linux. Fragmentation. It's always been that way and I don't see it changing in the short term. It's good for freedom of choice but not good for developers. That's why devs rather launch a game for Mac than for Linux. Maybe I'm a little biased here because I've always used Debian based distros, just Ubuntu actually. But, let's see how it plays out. May it is for the good of Linux gaming as a whole.

Yeah, and Ubuntu is trying to fragment it even more...

Quoting: Fredrik

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: WorMzy

Quoting: rustybroomhandleI think Arch-based would be the sensible option here. Arch-derived distros just seem way more stable and upgrade-fubar-proof than debian-derived ones.

Really? Debian is the gold standard for stability. The problem is that people want a stable OS with a "bleeding edge" graphics stack, and that's where the house of cards falls over.

Arch can provide the bleeding edge, but it requires that YOU (the end user) know what you're doing.

There are 2 vastly different things when we talk about "stability":

1) Stability in terms of software not crashing/freezing/bugging.

2) Stability in terms of software libraries/APIs/frameworks/software in general remaining the same (= stable) in order for app/game developers to know what to target for and not need to care about fixing incompatibilities with future upstream versions.

Debian is stable in terms of (2), not always in terms of (1). But people often seem to confuse the 2 and use them interchangeably in forums and discussions.

Arch derived distros are definitely stable in terms of (1). Following upstream means getting fixes for bugs and problems sooner. Yes it does break stuff that should work with earlier versions and it does require by devs to not rest on their laurels and support/maintain their code, but it is better than freezing the whole software base for 2 years just to make sure lazy devs can write their code and work without them having to modify it in the future.

Still, i don't know how feasible it would be for Valve to rebase SteamOS on something like Arch. Arch does not shy away from breaking compatibility with older versions of packages, it blindly follows upstream (as it should, being a mainly desktop oriented distro). Still, this will require SteamOS devs to learn to adopt to upstream changes faster while developing their own things. I don't believe the additional burden should be too much, it is not like they are changing everything every month. It would requires SteamOS to do constant updates though, as Arch philosophy is "update soon, update often", and this would be tiring for more casual users, even if it was trouble free and polished by Valve people.

I think the best solution would be for Valve to take pacman (a really good package manager) from Arch and create their own distro from the ground up. Since SteamOS should be a gaming oriented OS, it does not need a full blown Linux distro with all those packages and bloat. They can keep it small and simple, and control the rate at which they update their software. It should not be too much work, making a distro is not really that hard especially if that distro is use case specific.

Well GamerOS the arch based steamOS distro proves its very easy to port the packages to an arch base. GamerOS so far has been rock stable and with tweaks enabling 4k resolution and more games working out of the box then with proton alone its alot better then the current SteamOS. And using an Arch base has enabled way better performance. He even built in tools to install some programs like kodi Mediacenter and spotify.

Arch (and any rolling distribution) would be much more difficult from a support position though. It's the same reason why people don't use Arch in the enterprise, sure it'd be great to have all the new things, but we want stability over new features there. The same would be if you're a company that is going to be supporting a 'console' operating system. It's also why historically open source operating systems have been locked down before becoming production consoles. Guess we'll see if the Atari VCS actually comes out and is fully Linux based, and how open it is... most of the little videos they've released basically just show it running Windows...

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Quoting: Mr. PinskyThat pixelated font tho...

Give us your pixelated masses...

They have the dude who used to do all the id ports working on Steam for Linux? That's pretty sweet.

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Quoting: BrazilianGamer

Quoting: WorMzy

Quoting: BrazilianGamerDebian is the market standard.

What market are you talking about? Red Hat is the industry standard and has been for a long time. IBM didn't buy them for no good reason. :P

If you read my comment again, you'll see I was talking about applications. Not hegemony in servers. In servers there's no doubt Red hat wins in a landslide. But still, when companies or individuals think about creating any application, the first distro they know they have to support is Ubuntu or any other debian based distros in general. Simply because they are the most used therefore, popular and of course, there's a bigger chance of revenue if it is a paid software or just to have a bigger userbase.

The crap thing about that is Ubuntu trying to move away from Debian packages, and instead to adopt their own Snap package management. I get that Ubuntu wants to try to make themselves special, but all that does is make them less stable, and less wanted. So many developers in the past have made excuses not to support Linux because of all the variations, but for years it has basically been Debian+RPM based systems. Any of the other distributions have people smart enough to convert packages from deb/rpm. But then Red Hat comes out with Flatpak, that everyone adopts... except Ubuntu, who decides to push snap...

Sorry, rant over. We will see how much the next few Ubuntu releases screw the pooch.

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Quoting: AllocBesides the issue of no security updates on SmartTVs it's also simply an issue of not getting new apps either. Our Panasonic will probably never support Disney+ as an example (actually I think it never received *any* updates for any part of it since we got it like 5 years ago ...).

I consider SmartTVs to be similar to iMacs. While it's nice in the beginning to have a good working combination (and thus integration of both parts) of the content provider and the display unit after some time you got an outdated content provider but the display unit will be just fine for years. So screens are one thing where I don't want anything else to be integrated. Just give me proper interfaces to the outside (A/V) and that's it.

So far as I've seen with my LG WebOS TV, it's actually pretty decent in getting updates, and did get the Disney+ app. Thanks for reminding me, I need to cancel that... haha

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Quoting: WorMzy

Quoting: BrazilianGamerDebian is the market standard.

What market are you talking about? Red Hat is the industry standard and has been for a long time. IBM didn't buy them for no good reason. :P

Red Hat is indeed the industry standard... for enterprise level stuff. It's crap for home users. But that's not what it's intention is by a long shot!

It is even a decent workstation, but I still prefer Debian and it's derivatives as they package just about everything under the sun, and software is just an 'apt install' away.

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Quoting: miroI hope they don't intend to switch away from linux at all, when referring to away from `Debian-based Brewmaster`

That would not make sense at all, considering the efforts. I moved away from steamOS myself, but the only reason for this was because it is stuck with old software and the lack of e.g. Kodi

Debian doesn't have a lack of Kodi, you just need to add the deb-multimedia.org repo. And they keep it up to date as well.

https://www.deb-multimedia.org/ [External Link]

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