Quoting: legluondunet"They say it's now possible to run 32-bit Windows applications on a purely 64-bit Unix installation but this new WoW64"
That means we soon no more need to install 32 bits libraries? How they do that?

IIRC, they transition from 32-bit Win32 to the 64-bit Windows API which only then calls into the Linux or UNIX libraries below. If before you had (simplified) OpenFile_Win32 -> OpenFile_NT32 -> fopen_32 you now have OpenFile_Win32 -> OpenFile_NT32_Shim -> OpenFile_NT64 -> fopen_64. This is just like it's done on Windows.

The requirement for 32-bit system libraries was due to to OpenFile_Win32 expecting certain x86 properties that fopen_64 would not obey to, including different calling conventions b/w the Linux 32-bit CC and the SystemV AMD64 ABI (used by Linux 64-bit on x86) and other stuff. Due to OpenFile_NT32 being replaced by OpenFile_NT32_Shim as part of the WoW setup, the shim does a lot of rummaging to put things into the correct registers etc.

On Windows itself this is handled in a similar way, although the real thing is a lot more complicated of course. The trick is called "Heaven's Gate" and core functionality of WoW: https://0xk4n3ki.github.io/posts/Heavens-Gate-Technique/ [External Link] (this is mostly a post which explains the technique in the context of exploitation and obfuscation).

Note that this also allows you to replace more Wine rewritten libraries with the "original" Windows counterparts as they're now all DLLs and not ELFs.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: ljrkFurthermore, the same sandbox tech that Flatpak uses (bubblewrap) is also employed by the Steam Linux Runtime... so the game runs sandboxed, no matter what.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but my impression is that you do not need to use the Linux Runtime.

That is indeed true! I just wanted to assert that "no wonder this breaks if you sandbox it" has little ground for argument if even the official Steam runtime uses sandboxing to increase portability ^^

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Quoting: Samsai

Quoting: Kithop...really, the sound issue is because it's trying to hit ALSA natively? PulseAudio is... *checks notes*... 19 years old at this point. (GitHub issue link [External Link] )

Though at least later on it sounds like it's from people using the Flatpak version instead of native - and yeah, that's the first thing I'd say for almost anyone: don't use Flatpaks for this. Use your distro's native Steam package as your first choice, and then move down the line to like, getting it direct from Valve or whatnot if they don't have one. Running Steam in Flatpak or Snap just sounds like a Bad Time. But hey, at least there's validation that the sandbox is, uh, sandboxing things!

...like your own app from a decent audio API... ;p

That's not how that works, the sandbox isn't just arbitrarily deciding to block a game from using ALSA (there's a bunch of other games that also use ALSA which work just fine). And, funnily enough, I tried it out on Flatpak Steam today and it seems to work fine, sound and all.

So, it's almost like the game either had regular launch problems or some setup-specific problems, but which weren't the fault of Flatpak. So, it seems your blame was misplaced.

Furthermore, the same sandbox tech that Flatpak uses (bubblewrap) is also employed by the Steam Linux Runtime... so the game runs sandboxed, no matter what.

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Quoting: Kithop...really, the sound issue is because it's trying to hit ALSA natively? PulseAudio is... *checks notes*... 19 years old at this point. (GitHub issue link [External Link] )

Though at least later on it sounds like it's from people using the Flatpak version instead of native - and yeah, that's the first thing I'd say for almost anyone: don't use Flatpaks for this. Use your distro's native Steam package as your first choice, and then move down the line to like, getting it direct from Valve or whatnot if they don't have one. Running Steam in Flatpak or Snap just sounds like a Bad Time. But hey, at least there's validation that the sandbox is, uh, sandboxing things!

...like your own app from a decent audio API... ;p

Nah, Flatpak works quite fine for Steam although they (Valve) don't ship it that way by default. But they're actively developing solutions *for* Flatpak and with Flatpak in mind (gamescope, the runtimes, bwrap, portals, ...). Allowing to run Steam in a Flatpak even has the upside of having the correct versions of libraries that Steam requires.

Audio can be routed through the audio portal using Pulse or PipeWire just fine... you can have sound in Flatpaks.

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Quoting: Izaic

Quoting: ljrkAfter having played some Tiny Life, the Valheim character generator feels so awkwardly clunky and unnecessarily gendered :/ I really have a hard time enjoying that part of the game (or using my character) with next to no flexibility and such a rigid system. Either you're a completely buff guy or a (comparatively slender) girl with noticeable boobs. Buff girl? Slender dude? Something inbetwixt? No luck :(

I'm sorry, but it's just sad that you are having trouble enjoying the game simply because your character isn't your ideal. Use your imagination and just enjoy the gameplay. If you're playing minecraft are you going to enjoy it less because your character is blocky instead of big muscled womanly stature? That's just stupid.

Well, so it is, I find it more stupid that you're completely missing the point, your bad analogy to MC just underlines that more.

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After having played some Tiny Life, the Valheim character generator feels so awkwardly clunky and unnecessarily gendered :/ I really have a hard time enjoying that part of the game (or using my character) with next to no flexibility and such a rigid system. Either you're a completely buff guy or a (comparatively slender) girl with noticeable boobs. Buff girl? Slender dude? Something inbetwixt? No luck :(

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Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: ljrk

Quoting: benstor214

Quoting: ljrkActually some GTA V, but mostly just speeding around. American Truck Simulator is currently my go to, otherwise Witcher 3 (NG+), Portal 2 (my SO), ...

Doesn’t ATS use a lot of key bindings? How does it play on the Steam Deck?

Yes and no, you can configure it. On the deck is basically only use the rather simplistic steering option, but I think more complex ones would work to a certain degree. You have 4+4 back/shoulder buttons, 4+4 cross, 2 joy sticks each also a button, 2 trackpads ... . If you drive automatic, there's not much there as well. Of course accurate simulation lacks that way, but it's mostly a wind down game for me :)

There's quite a lot of stuff to bind, but even the official Steam Input config for a generic gamepad covers everything you need. The ability to use long presses for less frequently needed stuff like attaching/detaching a trailer and turning off the engine helps a lot. I'd imagine the extra paddles and things on the Deck make it even less fiddly, although personally I like to play these games in front of a large (TV) screen.

Yup, I'm just too casual to really do that :D I'm currently a couch gamer, TV would certainly also work with Deck, but it already struggles a bit with ATS graphics (even though I'm using Proton as it's performing better than native).

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Quoting: benstor214

Quoting: ljrkActually some GTA V, but mostly just speeding around. American Truck Simulator is currently my go to, otherwise Witcher 3 (NG+), Portal 2 (my SO), ...

Doesn’t ATS use a lot of key bindings? How does it play on the Steam Deck?

Yes and no, you can configure it. On the deck is basically only use the rather simplistic steering option, but I think more complex ones would work to a certain degree. You have 4+4 back/shoulder buttons, 4+4 cross, 2 joy sticks each also a button, 2 trackpads ... . If you drive automatic, there's not much there as well. Of course accurate simulation lacks that way, but it's mostly a wind down game for me :)

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Actually some GTA V, but mostly just speeding around. American Truck Simulator is currently my go to, otherwise Witcher 3 (NG+), Portal 2 (my SO), ...

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Quoting: sarmad

Quoting: ljrk

Quoting: sarmadI think for the same price you can get higher specs from MSI with better build quality.

I'm not really much of a System76 buyer as I generally shy away from any +512 EUR laptop personally (my work laptop is a different thing...), but why do you think MSI does better builds? AFAIK System76 does *not* just re-brand Clevo clamshells. Also, the MSI won't have proper open firmware and as-high software quality.

From experience. I have owned two System76 laptops in the past and now I'm using an MSI laptop, which just feels more premium. For example, the Darter Pro had a very annoying keyboard flex and you can clearly see a bump in the keyboard in the middle as if a screw is missing. The other annoying thing in System76 laptops was the fan curves, though my Darter Pro was the version with the closed source firmware; not sure if the fan curve is better with the open firmware. On the other hand the open firmware in System76 laptops is nice. So I guess it depends on whether open firmware is higher priority to you than build quality.

I see, thanks! I've only had brief experience with their newer models which were fine on the surface. Maybe it has changed, maybe it was just too superficial to notice ^^'

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