on my end - can't recommend. While it's a nice game on my linux box I can't get past this figgin EA launcher.

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considering the switch - as Lutris has not been recognizing library of my installed games for over a year I see less and less incentive to use it.
Because of that for me it has become mostly a way to install non-native stuff (not an app launcher / manager)... and for that purpose I quite like what I see in Bottles, UI-wise.

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GBM and Nvidia? Wow, I just can't believe what I'm seeing... Can't wait to see it in the stable branch.
Let's also see a proper Wayland support in some of the apps many folks need for work / study (Teams for example) and it will be golden.

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Quoting: BOYSSSSSYou're the guy that's recommending GNOME for new people to Linux right?

It looks we're simply not reading each others posts or we're simply misunderstanding each other intentions.
I've been stating that nowadays I recommend Gnome for non-techies. For more advanced users KDE might be a good choice.
And that comes from the "success rate" after someone falling into "non-techie" asked me to install Linux for them. I've tried Mate, Xfce, KDE - and Gnome. So far Gnome proved to be least problematic for them (and for me as well, as for the most part I didn't have to follow up much with extra help later on).
I'm not saying it is perfect - again, no DE is.
So yeah, if you consider that I'm a fanboy because I tend to recommend a certain DE to very specific user group based on my experience then... well, call me a fanboy. I'm not offended - I'll keep using various DEs, will keep experimenting with different setups. It's not a personal thing for me, I'm not falling intro tribalism trap - and will keep enjoying good parts of every DE (but won't be blind for the shortcomings).

Quoting: BOYSSSSSor putting the classical start menu and taskbar on GNOME for a newbie

the thing is - I don't do that. As you might have noticed I'm not into the whole "make it look like Windows" thing. I'm not trying to make it something it isn't.

Quoting: scaineinstall something like Ubuntu Studio, and then it just works out of the box

sadly when it comes to music apps it's not. You still have to deal with absolutely awful (frontend wise - I'm not judging the code / capabilities) JACK audio. Ir doesn't deliver experience that would be remotely on par.

Quoting: scaineLinux is a better choice (for me) in almost every aspect

and I'm not disputing that. In fact I totally agree - and the reason I'm using Linux as well. I'm just saying that while we have all the parts needed to make awesome system (and we do that ourselves) out of the box experience is lacking.
If you get past that the only (but sadly serious) issue is not directly OS related - lack of pro level consumer apps (for example nothing that in the CAD space, nothing that would replace Photoshop and so on).
One of the reason I'm rooting for all the initiatives that make it easier for folks to deploy apps on Linux and for distro-agnostic formats like Flatpaks.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyDid you read my post beyond that point?

yes, I did. But as I've written later on my observation is that people don't care about that as much as they probably should.

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Quoting: Eike(and you cut out).

not out of malice though :) . I just didn't think quoting huge block would change anything.
Look, I'd love people to get annoyed. Techies usually are. But I often work with people that are not into computers. And to my horror I often see them using Edge, or installing Chrome and simply ignoring those popups. They don't care.

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Quoting: BOYSSSSSIt seems to me that you are a GNOME fanboy that's pushing your preferences on people that don't know better

OMG, how did you get that impression? Because I've said I think ALL de-s are actually amazing, including GNOME? Since when not hating something became fanboyism :D ?
I don't mind that you don't like GNOME - it is simply personal preference. I like it, but I also like KDE Plasma, Xfce, Cinammon etc. But I also see issues with every single one of those.

Quoting: BOYSSSSSI don't use KWallet and disable Search indexing, but I wouldn't call that "tweaking".

ok, but think about regular folks - for them it is serious tweaking. They wouldn't know where to find those settings. They would just be hella annoyed by the constant KDE Wallet nags (which shouldn't be a thing if the wallet actually got properly opened by SDDM, other login managers actually can do it, no issues with PAM modules) and search not working.
Just open KDE settings and think about regular folks - do you think they'd enjoy those? Heck, I'm pretty familiar with them and still often forget where to look for the setting I want to change.
So even though I seriously think it is amazing what this amount settings brings to the table and I often install KDE on work machines I also see that the way it is exposed to the user can also be a potential problem.

In the end I don't care which DE "wins". Heck, I don't even look at it as some kind of competition. I'm glad we have choices and I like what those bring to the table.
What I care about is whether Linux offers better workflows and experience for "non-techies". And IMO we have all the means, almost all the parts are there, but it didn't happen.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyWhat's annoying about Windows is mostly all the Xtra Proprietary-ness.

But you do realize that most of people do not care about that? We may, but most of the folks just want to get their job done.

Quoting: Purple Library GuySecond, there are two main reasons musicians, graphic designers etc. use OS X. The first is that it has an excellent software ecosystem for that kind of people

yes - and its backed by the OS. For example - on OSX you basically connect an audio device and you have low latency audio out of the box.
On Windows you need to add some special drivers. Oh, and have you tried it on Linux? Yes, in theory it is doable but you need to fiddle with JACK and preferably custom kernel. I doubt most of musicians would go with that - not because they're not capable to learn it, but because fiddling with systems is not their job.
That's what I think when I say "we should do better". We should offer better OS tools that would grant user better experience when they're trying to get their job done.
Making the workflow / UI "similar" IMO should be just an afterthought.

And yes, that's just my opinion. But I try to base it on what I see. Look - OSX is popular among creatives as it offers good experience for them, even though it is different. Linux dominates server / supercomputer space - again because it offers better experience for folks that are into it, not because it is "similar". That's IMO the approach that brings folks on board.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyMint with Mate is IMO good, and very familiar to a classic Windows user, right out of the box.

but IMO that's the wrong approach. Why would you go for a Windows clone if you can actually use Windows? We need to offer something better - and I believe Linux can do it.
Look for example at OSX - it is completely different from Windows, but quite a bit of pros (for example musicians, graphic designers etc) use it as it offers them a better experience.
That's IMO the correct approach - don't make duplicates, make something better.

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Quoting: KohlyKohlGnome out of the box is ugly and to make it useful you have to add plugins to it. The default should be a useable desktop without the user having to do anything.

yeah, but if you had actually read my post you'd notice I acknowledge that. IMO every single one of the major DEs on Linux are ugly. Gnome is a bit dysfunctional unless you're into very specific (and I'd argue for lot of workflows just not good) workflow with not so cool icons (even though they've improved and also Adwaita becomes bearable). KDE looks like someone puked rainbow on your screen, trying to make a windows clone with bad font choices and totally tangled settings and options. Xfce is like stepping back in time. I could go on.
But the thing is every single one can be made awesome. With Gnome you just install 2-3 extensions, tweak the same amount of settings (for example turn on extra window buttons) and install icon theme. With KDE you add a theme and spend quite a bit going through the settings then disable/tweak stuff that does not work so well (for example Kwallet or file search). And so on.
My belief is that most of the parts are there (or mostly there - like with sound system, where I had some hopes with Pipewire). They're just not put together well by default (maybe a bit better on Ubuntu) - maybe because we don't have much of actual frontend UI/UX designers on our platform. Or maybe there's no company that actually cares that will pay someone to do the tedious work nobody wants to do. I don't know.
But at least we could do it ourselves. No matter the DE - IMO most of them are awesome!

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Quoting: SchattenspiegelLet's hope the ones crossing over do not come into contact with GNOME desktop first. Otherwise they might start to find windows 11 not so bad after all. ;-)

and that's debatable. My personal experience is that when I introduce some non-techie to Linux Gnome works best (with addad dock and some minor tweaks). Those were folks that actually kept using Linux.
With "techies" KDE is usually the best choice. Sucks with default settings but you can do almost anything with it.
IMO one of the issues with Linux desktop is by default every single DE sucks... even though every single one (among the major ones) is actually awesome.

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