Quoting: omer666

Quoting: m2mg2

Quoting: omer666I think privacy advocacy may be going a little over the top on this subject. I'm all for it, I use a zero-access email provider, do my searches on Duckduckgo, have a LineageOS smartphone without Google services and so on, and yet I don't mind them collecting technical data. It's much less complete than Steam hardware survey and yet I'd bet every Linux gamer will gladly answer this one because they want to improve the system's visibility for game developers. Here the devs want to improve the system, but nope, no sir, this is bad and all.

Can you name anything that improved leaps and bounds after starting to collect telemetry? Gnome does telemetry but they continuously ignore the obvious will of users to do what they want instead. It's less about needing telemetry and more about following the industry trends of collecting data and IGNORING what users want in favor of what developers and platform owners want. The proponents of this over and over acknowledge they can't make it opt-in because users wont opt-in. They can't force an explicit choice because the choice will be no and they know it. This right here says it all. They should just not do it. They are already ignoring users in favor of what they want, you think they are going to completely flip and suddenly start doing things in the interest of the users? Nonsense.

They also make the arguments that users don't care, also total nonsense. Telemetry has been getting forced on users for years against their will. They are so bombarded it would take unrealistic effort to stop it so they submit, effectively by force. Then you guys turn around and say they don't care. They have never been given a choice, except in Linux and now people are trying to take that choice away as well. If you want to collect it, make people want to give it to you. If you can't do that, don't take it. Don't trick them, take via it attrition (bombarding them until they make a mistake by accident) and dark patterns. Be better, be ethical.

Well I am not using Linux just because of privacy, but also for technical reasons, so that's a different case altogether.

I never heard of GNOME using telemetry, but I have a pretty unpopular opinion about how they've been handling user requests since GNOME 3.0... I am glad they haven't listened :grin:

Pretty sure it's opt in, unlike the current proposal but I don't use Gnome and I find Gnome 3 to be an abomination. https://gitlab.gnome.org/vstanek/gnome-info-collect/#fedora [External Link]

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Quoting: omer666

Quoting: m2mg2 
"Firefox, Chrome, Brave, Vivaldi, Opera, Edge, Windows, IOS, Android, etc. already are collecting this type of data by default."

This quote is from the opt-in opt-out thread. People want Linux to be just like Windows. We use it because it's not Windows. Please, don't make it Windows. Then those of us that care about what Linux is/was, will have to go to BSD.... and we will. Not that the ones who take it over will care.

I don't understand why you think people wanting more freedom will go to an OS which is more closed-source friendly, but why not...

OpenBSD is not closed source friendly.

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Quoting: poiuz

Quoting: m2mg2Can you name anything that improved leaps and bounds after starting to collect telemetry? Gnome does telemetry but they continuously ignore the obvious will of users to do what they want instead.

No, they're not. Stop spreading FUD.

Quoting: ValckAnd while none of that was specifically about Fedora and its flavour of "telemetry", it all applies just the same, as the comment about the Gnome devs perfectly illustrates. And Fedora the Linux distribution is so much more encompassing than just Gnome the desktop environment.
"Telemetry" certainly is not about aiding the users and improving their experience.

That's FUD, too. Just stop it.

Make an argument or don't, calling something FUD is a cop out because you probably have no good argument to make.

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"Firefox, Chrome, Brave, Vivaldi, Opera, Edge, Windows, IOS, Android, etc. already are collecting this type of data by default."

This quote is from the opt-in opt-out thread. People want Linux to be just like Windows. We use it because it's not Windows. Please, don't make it Windows. Then those of us that care about what Linux is/was, will have to go to BSD.... and we will. Not that the ones who take it over will care.

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Quoting: omer666I think privacy advocacy may be going a little over the top on this subject. I'm all for it, I use a zero-access email provider, do my searches on Duckduckgo, have a LineageOS smartphone without Google services and so on, and yet I don't mind them collecting technical data. It's much less complete than Steam hardware survey and yet I'd bet every Linux gamer will gladly answer this one because they want to improve the system's visibility for game developers. Here the devs want to improve the system, but nope, no sir, this is bad and all.

Can you name anything that improved leaps and bounds after starting to collect telemetry? Gnome does telemetry but they continuously ignore the obvious will of users to do what they want instead. It's less about needing telemetry and more about following the industry trends of collecting data and IGNORING what users want in favor of what developers and platform owners want. The proponents of this over and over acknowledge they can't make it opt-in because users wont opt-in. They can't force an explicit choice because the choice will be no and they know it. This right here says it all. They should just not do it. They are already ignoring users in favor of what they want, you think they are going to completely flip and suddenly start doing things in the interest of the users? Nonsense.

They also make the arguments that users don't care, also total nonsense. Telemetry has been getting forced on users for years against their will. They are so bombarded it would take unrealistic effort to stop it so they submit, effectively by force. Then you guys turn around and say they don't care. They have never been given a choice, except in Linux and now people are trying to take that choice away as well. If you want to collect it, make people want to give it to you. If you can't do that, don't take it. Don't trick them, take via it attrition (bombarding them until they make a mistake by accident) and dark patterns. Be better, be ethical.

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Quoting: ElectricPrismGood for Debian, Arch and others, bad for Fedora. (making people agitated that is)

I'm already planning out my switch BACK to Debian, though I may look into some Arch variants

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Quoting: mr-victoryKDE Plasma added opt-in telemetry and life went on. Fedora is considering telemetry and it blew up for some reason.

The big problem is installing it and activating it by default, giving the option to disable after the fact but you can click through it without even reading it or actually making a choice to authorize it. Opt out

They want to trick people into allowing it. Honestly I may change distros even if they don't move forward just because they are even seriously considering this and their developers are actively pushing for it.

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All my computers are Fedora, we have like 11 in the house (big family). They would all be another distribution shortly after opt out telemetry was enabled. Reading through the threads thankfully it's looking like it won't happen. I agree with many others that telemetry should be packaged separately and shouldn't even be installed unless the user opts in. I'm amazed at how prevalent malicious design has become. How can we train users to spot and avoid malicious activity by malicious individuals when the same methods are used by "legitimate" sources? IMO any design that is intended to circumvent the users intentions and choices is malicious.

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Ok, I'll try that. It said it didn't matter in the web page. Do you get the message about the EAC hash not found? I get even starting w/EAC disabled

Update: It's working now. I had to delete the eac.so file in addition to replacing the dll's. Thank you!

Quoting: MayeulC

Quoting: m2mg2

Quoting: MayeulC

Quoting: m2mg2What is this hack to get achievements working? There was a time I had it working but it broke long ago.

Quoting: MayeulCStill no splitscreen :P

More seriously, nothing changed. There's still a hack to get achievements and campaign progression without EAC, but no online play with EAC enabled.

There are a few references on https://areweanticheatyet.com/ [External Link], but it has less info than this post. Here's their latest update [External Link].

https://fearlessrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11818 [External Link]

There is a replacement dll for eac. That also allows the game to load with EAC on, though you'll get kicked from online matches after a few seconds (I tried once, without realizing I still had it). I'd avoid online as I don't want a ban.

Does not appear to work any longer. I get a message about anti cheat hash not found when I start the game and no achievements appear to come through

You still have to start with EAC off, mind you.

I unlocked another achievement just a couple hours ago.

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Quoting: MayeulC

Quoting: m2mg2What is this hack to get achievements working? There was a time I had it working but it broke long ago.

Quoting: MayeulCStill no splitscreen :P

More seriously, nothing changed. There's still a hack to get achievements and campaign progression without EAC, but no online play with EAC enabled.

There are a few references on https://areweanticheatyet.com/ [External Link], but it has less info than this post. Here's their latest update [External Link].

https://fearlessrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11818 [External Link]

There is a replacement dll for eac. That also allows the game to load with EAC on, though you'll get kicked from online matches after a few seconds (I tried once, without realizing I still had it). I'd avoid online as I don't want a ban.

Does not appear to work any longer. I get a message about anti cheat hash not found when I start the game and no achievements appear to come through

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