Why wouldn't he be excited?

First, it's just cool tech. And having someone at Sony excited about it proves this to me.

Second, it's good business for Sony. They are already releasing on Steam, they pulled out of the handheld space and seem to have been focusing a lot more on publishing. The only option for handheld gaming have been the switch and cellphones... Which I assume are both difficult markets for Sony.

It's rather sad that we're surprised about this. That we assume companies want to wall their own gardens. I applaud them for embracing cool.things and playing well with others.

I just hope valve sticks to their promise and keeps the deck open and cool!

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Quoting: Liam DaweAgain, you're just helping my point here. They're not targetting plain Linux users. You said this that Linux "tries to cater to the mainstream too much", I say very clearly: not enough, not even close...yet. Work is being done towards it but it's not enough.

You're making the point that what matters to a Desktop Linux user is what matters to a mainstream user. The mainstream user wants Chrome OS and I want Debian, and none of us would be happy with the other's platform. I would argue that there's no platform that will make both of us happy.

Quoting: Liam DaweI'm also not arguing for plain Linux. Look at System76 as an example, they're heavily investing into Pop to make it appeal to more people, and it's clearly working for them. They're constantly growing and expanding, because they're not just trying to pull in Linux fans.

Well, Linus sure hated it anyway. The problem was not that Pop is bad, but the fact that he had the wrong expectations for it. Linux isn't a drop in replacement for Windows.

Yet, System76 is the only vendor that has an appealing product to proper enthusiasts in the desktop space. At least in my opinion. The Thelios line is expensive but looks premium and would make me proud to own and I wouldn't feel like a second class citizen among peers. It's like the Mac Pro of Linux. And they have those amazing looking keyboards too. I feel like they understand what enthusiasts want and buy.

As a polar opposite, my Tuxedo machine was a horrible disappointment. Poor choices in materials, cheap components and I replaced it really soon as my daily driver.

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Quoting: Liam DawePinephone is ridiculously far from being a mainstream device. Their target market is pretty clear: Linux users and FOSS fans. Comparing them to an iphone is a bit ridiculous.

And not even FOSS enthusiasts are raving about it. Yes, they're selling, but they're not turning heads.

Quoting: Liam DaweLiterally everything goes back to the same thing: bigger names putting them in front of people, the point of the article.

No, Google knew what they wanted to offer. Chrome OS doesn't do anything new, they just pulled an Apple and packaged it nicely so the consumer would like it. The consumer for Chrome OS is not a computer enthusiast, the mainstream consumer isn't, they just want a browser and an OS that doesn't get in their way when they're browsing Facebook.

People don't buy Chromebooks because of the brand recognition, Google advertises the fact that they boot fast, have a long battery life and have an immutable root filesystem. I don't think any Linux enthusiast would be thrilled about the latter.

Quoting: Liam DaweBoth of those help to prove my point. Raspberry Pi is well-known and the official OS is Linux. Steam Deck is already well known, will likely sell well and runs Linux.

The Raspberry Pi was not a big name, it was something that people wanted. It's small, cheap and versatile, which is exactly what they need to be for their application. They're a great way to automate stuff or even play retro games, but it's not a good desktop platform and it hasn't replaced basic Windows machines there either. I would consider the Pi to be a smash success for Linux, without having ever really catered to the mainstream.

If somebody wants to use a Pi to automate something, they have to learn Linux and get acquainted with the Philosophy. The Pi is not trying to be something it isn't. It's a tinkering device and it doesn't try to be anything but that.

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Quoting: Liam DaweThere is no alternative. You cannot keep appealing to the same set of users, that isn't big enough to grow and attract more vendors.

We have yet to satisfy our own demographic. There's a huge amount of churn on Linux, users that are curious, try it and don't stick. And yet we're slowly getting there.

* The steam survey says we're slowly becoming more.
* Some vendors are starting to pop up.

My point is that the vendors we have produce hardware that we do not want, and that computer enthusiasts as a whole are not excited about. Their only selling point is that they run Linux. Which is not a strong selling point to the mainstream.

There's no way in hell a Pinephone would outsell the iPhone at a regular retailer, even considering you can buy half a dozen Pinephones for the price of an iPhone. The moment that people realize that it lags when scrolling and has a hard time playing a Youtube video, they're out.

You don't see tech channels getting excited about the rebadged Chinese laptops that the Linux vendors come up with, and you see very lukewarm reviews for any Linux based handset. The Linux hardware market is just boring, and you're usually better off buying the Windows device and replacing the OS.

I get your point that the Hardware not being in their faces doesn't expose them to it. But I'd argue the Steam Deck and the Raspberry are the only competitive products we got in the ring (hardware-wise). And I can buy Raspberries at normal electronics stores and the Deck has huge hype behind it.

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Quoting: Liam DaweThe reality is, IMO, as the article is just trying to convey - is that the masses / mainstream won't pick it up, if they can't see it to buy it. We need the bigger vendors jumping in.

I have to disagree with the sentiment though. I think the bigger issue Linux has is that it tries to cater to the mainstream too much. Most people I talk with would not buy a laptop with Linux even if I glued it to their faces.

People on the Linux side have been burned by the other platforms, we hate that Windows takes away control from us and forces telemetry on us when we said no, we hate that our phone decides when we can take a screenshot, we love the fact that Linux just lets us do dumb stuff with our machines whenever we just write sudo in front of a command.

Linux treats me like an adult.

We are enthusiasts, we consider our computers our hobby, we like to tinker, we know how to back up our files, and we know how to restore it if we wreck the operating system. If people aren't willing to do those things, then they need a platform that babysits them. But that's always gonna end up being more like Android, iOS or Chrome OS. With a locked bootloader and limited freedoms.

Google has successfully mainstreamed Linux twice. Because they know that what the Linux desktop user wants is not what the average user wants.

Mainstream wants a platform that works. I consider myself a Linux enthusiast and even I wouldn't consider a Pinephone or Librem as my daily drivers. They're clunky and buggy and lack a ton of basic features that just need to work. And I'm not talking about app support, just a working UI, more than 4 hours of battery life, working settings and browser would do it.

I think the people creating these products should stop caring so much about mainstream and start to try and figure out who is downloading their OS and what hardware these people want to buy.

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Quoting: GuestJust being preinstalled on machines is not enough. It needs to be preinstalled on the brands that people actually buy (Acer, Asus, HP etc), available in the stores people actually buy from (Argos, PC World, Currys etc) and priced comparatively or cheaper than the Windows variants.

As Nate says in his blog post, linux desktop marketing should be focused on hardware OEMs rather than end users.

I'd like to disagree, I think Linux does a terrible job at servicing it's own demographic and focuses way too hard on the others... For me it sucks that the only Linux available Laptops are the bottom of the barrel Dells and Thinkpads, it sucks that the Pinephone feels like the 70$ Android crap you buy off Amazon.

I'd like to have a device that caters to the demographic of Linux power users. Sysadmins who want cool tech, and have a stable job. Don't get me wrong, it's awesome that you can get the cheap offerings we have now, but they don't get me excited.

Steam / Valve, in my opinion, is doing a great job with the Deck this time. The device is expensive, but it's something you WANT to get. I want to save up some cash to splurge on it, because it's cool without the Linux aspect, and the fact that Valve is open to people tinkering with it makes it even cooler.

I'd like to see this trend move over to phones and computers too. I don't mind if I have to shill out 2,500 dollars for a Laptop to get Linux. It sucks that I have to buy something that just feels 2014 when compared to the Macbooks and high-end Windows Laptops that my peers rock.

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Quoting: HoriI like Steam a lot but I also have all my games here, so even if I wanted to, I couldn't just up and leave without basically throwing away a load of money.

I like this point here. If I don't own the game anyway, why should I pretend to own it. If steam shuts down my games are lost regardless

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I'd love that if it worked based on the time I spend with a certain game. Creates an incentive for developers to keep old games running and updated without forcing them to resort to annualized franchises.

Basically a great way to support the games you actually play.

Edit: I also like to add that publishers don't have to be worried about their revenue. First of all, I wouldn't think of it as something mandatory, more like gamepass. Publishers would have the option to withhold their games for a few months right after release, or make it available for subscribers for a few months to invite new players and drive sales when the game drops back out of the sub model

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Quoting: scaineconfirmed abuser

Sources?

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I'm very happy the FSF has made up it's mind and is looking for a path forward. The fact that they took several weeks to discuss this is a good sign IMO. No rash decision in response to an outraged mob. :D

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