Quoting: scaineIt's literally how much I despise Epic as an entity, and Sweeney as a person.

Yikes.

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: WoodlandorI thought we were supposed to be mad at Payday 2 for dropping the native Linux port :wink:

My impression is that Liam thinks that people upset about them dropping the native port for Proton are elitist, because it shouldn't matter whether or not it's native, as long as we can run the game.

That’s not what I’ve said. I understand that people will be upset about a Native port being dropped. But there’s a difference between playing games because games are fun, and people who just refuse to play a game because of Proton - my point is about Native zealot behaviour. Do whatever you want, it matters not to me and I will continue to cover all ways of gaming on Linux.

There's a lot of Native vs Proton discourse; the former extreme treat proton as a crutch that stifles the gaming scene for Linux (despite Proton getting the attention of Epic, EA, Ubisoft etc.), the latters' extreme see's it as a magic bullet that can fix everything (while also curiously ignoring all the times Proton just doesn't work or is just straight-up worse).

The issue with Payday 2 in this case is complicated by the fact that the game is being dropped three months before it's EOL, as Payday 3 is launching in September. It comes off as making the userbase feel disposable, something which I've championed Overkill in the past at avoiding doing by making the Native port run well AND keep it updated, even when in a worse financial position. And in a strange twist, it's not just us Linux nerds angry at Overkill; I've chatted with a fair few Windows' peeps now who aren't exactly happy with them breaking Linux support, even if it doesn't affect them, as the end result has made the game categorically worse. There are whole movements to downgrade to older updates in protest too.

In my opinion, Proton is very much a useful tool to me, I use it to play Hitman 3 (and did so with Hitman 2), and my success rate has been more success that failure. But it's not perfect, nor the bane of human existance, and neither sides' zealots should treat it as such.

I'm starting to understand why Nvidia users are using it over Native (LOTS of driver issues with the game on Native; I'm on AMD so my intel is limited). I've never needed, nor desired, to use Proton on Payday 2, and Overkill deciding to drop support, all so they could add a botched implementation of EOS really infuriates me.

It's just an unusual situation to be in. Gaming is gaming, proton or not. Use what you need to, and people shouldn't judge others by how they run their games.

Yes, this comment was made four days later than i'd like, but being angry all the time is not good for me.

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Quoting: DrMcCoy

but the ultimate reason is pretty much the same as always — Linux and Steam Deck together hold a less than 2% user share on Steam

Sorry, but no, that's wrong. The reason is this:

due to the Linux version being on an older version of the PAYDAY 2 engine

I.e. a terrible development environment, the developers being bad at their job.

That quote right there, that tells me that they kept the Linux codebase in a separate fork. That's bad praxis, that's objectively incompetent.

Forking the codebase to put in support for another platform is fundamentally wrong, and we see, time and time again, that this leads to the codebases growing apart with the developers not being able to keep up keeping them in sync, and then abandoning the other platform. 90% of the time were we had Linux support being wiped away was because of this very reason. Why aren't people learning? You don't do that.

Instead, you need to make portability a feature of your code outright, you need to make the same single codebase run on all the individual platforms. No forks, just one portable repository that can run everywhere. That's not new knowledge either, we've known that for decades!

Payday 2's lua is largely consistent to that of Windows. [External Link] While there are Linux-specific pieces of code (and vice versa), it's not nearly to the extent you're implying here.

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Quoting: TurkeysteaksVery disappointed with this to be honest. Payday 2 was one of the first games I was amazed to have linux support, I played it so much at that point.

I understand their reasoning, though in my opinion it doesn't bode well for Payday 3.

Their reasoning is most likely not wanting to implement EOS into the native version, despite EOS having a native linux build. [External Link] I can tell when Overkill are using PR speak to cover up for a a lie, and this is one of those times.

It's really frustrating too, It was a damn good port.

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That video thumbnail reminds me of GMOD lets play videos.

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Quoting: christofin

Quoting: Dribbleondo

Quoting: christofinCase in point: The racing game they just announced yesterday has a nice little EGS logo at the end of the trailer. Ubisoft doesn't give a single crap about their Steam customers.

"Grrr, EOS is bad?" Last I checked, EOS has been working for ages with Proton and Wine, so this just comes off as an odd complaint.

Not really? My point is that Ubisoft doesn't care about their Steam customers. If they did, they wouldn't be holding back their new releases specifically from Steam. I never said anything about EGS working or not working.

Again, I misunderstood the comment. I've deleted it now because it's causing confusion.

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Quoting: JustinWood

Quoting: Dribbleondo

Quoting: christofinCase in point: The racing game they just announced yesterday has a nice little EGS logo at the end of the trailer. Ubisoft doesn't give a single crap about their Steam customers.

"Grrr, EOS is bad?" Last I checked, EOS has been working for ages with Proton and Wine, so this just comes off as an odd complaint.

I think you're confusing the Epic Game Store (EGS) with the Epic Online Services (EOS). I think Christofin's comment was specifically that despite having started to bring these games back over to Steam, it's clear that it's not a "we're going to release everywhere at the same time again", it's "we made all the money we were going to make through EGS and Ubisoft Connect, so now Steam users can have the games". It's blatant padding of their bottom line, maximizing their revenue. And yeah, that's every business, but it's why I refuse to support them anymore, and actively advise folks spend their money elsewhere.

Okay, if that's the case, then I retract my former statement.

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Quoting: MisterPaytwickAllow me to quote someone with the one true line about companies going away from steam to their own client without working on some kind of interoperability: They don't want the money, they want _all_ the money.

That is a misquote and a half, mate. You literally just took JSS's words and applied them to the situation we're in. The actual context for the quote is that this is a general "AAA" mindset and how "all the money in the world" is the only success goal in business, which is, of course, an unattainable goal. That quote has nothing to do with steam or interoperability.

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Something people argued with me on Twitter some time ago that wouldn't happen — I was right again.

There was no evidence prior of them thinking of using an anti-cheat. Had they wanted to use EAC, they would've done so from the beginning, especially since their sugar daddy owns EAC; one of the most prolific anti-cheats on the market.

As they say, they're only doing it now due to an increase in AI bots, suggesting that had this situation not happened, the game wouldn't have gotten an anti-cheat.

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Stadia died because they didn't market it very well; I don't think the featureset of stadia was the issue (though that obviously did not help).

Had they marketed it towards laptop users, or people who simply don't have good PC's, instead of enticing people with 4K* and general hardcore PC users, then I can at least see them carving a niche. But they didn't market it like that, and we're left with a husk of a service that Google couldn't sell to anyone.

Even the Epic Games Store, a company whose launcher is still not that great (though WAY better than it used to be), has more features, a consistent userbase, and drew people in with various ways; free games that were actually free to keep (a good chunk of them being DRM Free too!), store exclusives that, yes, people hate, but it still made them stand out compared to Stadia.

Not only that, but Google's immediate competition were well-known for making good games; Microsoft's Xbox division, Valve with Source (2) and Steam, Epic with EGS and Unreal Engine 4/5; even the consoles had their benefits. Google bet on cloud streaming for the masses, and lost...hard.

This project was doomed to fail, and was a foregone conclusion six months into its release in my opinion.

I think game streaming like Stadia has a niche; it just needs to be marketed to the right people.

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