Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: jensNow it happens that Feral games seem to score really really well on three points. That is partially indeed because having less translation layers may score better in terms of performance, but mostly because they simply know how to do their job. There are a lots of examples where a different approach with a general translation layer like dxvk (where the author also very well knows how to do his job) can yield better results than something that is non-optimally coded "natively" on Linux. So as usually, there is no silver bullet, it all depends on a combination of things.

Please don't get me wrong please, I would prefer a Feral game anytime. But not because they are more native than other Linux games, but because their ports are stable, have support and perform really really well.

PS: Some background info on what Feral is actually doing: Vulkanised 2018 - Porting to Vulkan (Alex Smith - Feral Interactive) [External Link]

If a port is well made, you'll always get a better performance than with DXVK + wine.

As the video shows, Feral works on making a port for each game doing a analysis of where they can work to get the best speed up. In fact, it also shows how they tries to understand how the driver works (in the case of the open source drivers) so they choose the right strategy. With this said, is quite idiotic to keep trying to see a Feral port as a non native (you're trying to leave their work at the same level as with DXVK + wine, which is definitely not the case!).

I insist in that we must give priority on supporting this companies that do this native ports. They do extremely low level work that improves a lot Linux distro in general, no to mention the quality you get (at least with Feral has been a guarantee for me).

The equation is simple: if I buy a proton supported game, a windows game developer and Steam gets my money (70% for windows only publisher/dev and 30% for proton devs). But if I buy a native port I know that a Linux dev + Steam gets my money (X% for publisher ,Y% for Linux dev and 30% for proton devs). In the end, is all about where we invest our money, and our goal should be to give as much as we can to the ones that improves our OS.

I don't know why you got the impression that I would not care for developers/publishers that release for Linux. That is certainly not the case ;). E.g. I'm eagerly awaiting Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I'll buy it on day one directly from Feral at full price (well except when there is a discount in Feral's store on day one ;))

What I don't mind is the technical aspect how a game is made for Linux as long as it runs fine on my machine (my response was mostly about this) and that it is visible that I'm a Linux player. I have enjoyed Rise of the Tomb Raider and F1 2017 from Feral, but equally enjoyed GTA5 and now Dark Souls 3 using Steam Play. In case of the latter two I ensured that I buy and play from the Linux Steam version to make sure that they appear as Linux purchases in the Steam statistics.

Regarding your last paragraph, the development of DXVK certainly also contributed to the quality of the graphics stack on Linux.

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Quoting: Brisse

Quoting: jens

Quoting: BrisseFacing Pontiff Sulyvahn at level 1 as we speak :)
Pretty insane when even the common mobs in Irithyll kills me in one hit :D

At lvl 1? Did you start with a new character and went till this guy without leveling up?!?

Yup :)
Died to him four times now so I'm gonna take a break and give it another shot tomorrow.
And by level 1 I actually mean level 8 because that's the starting level so you can't actually be level 1 in this game.
No co-op partners around to rely on either because matchmaking won't allow to call in sunbros that are at a significantly higher level. I guess there aren't many level 1 sunbros around :)

Ah, yes, forgot that the starting lvl is 8. Still very hardcore! :)

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Quoting: BrisseFacing Pontiff Sulyvahn at level 1 as we speak :)
Pretty insane when even the common mobs in Irithyll kills me in one hit :D

At lvl 1? Did you start with a new character and went till this guy without leveling up?!?

I'm happy that I reached the second bonfire in Irith. with my (now at) lvl77 character, took me only 2 hours (with some soul farming in-between) :)

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Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: axredneck

Quoting: x_wing... native ports ... Feral ...

Are Feral ports really much more native than playing using Proton?

Of course they are, you won't find any windows dll or PEM executable on a Feral port AFAIK.

Don't know why people puts a library wrapper at the same level as a OS wrapper (or middleware). In the former you can work on micro-optimizations and even refactor a full part of the code if you fell it's necessary, while in the latter you just can hope to get "the best" perform implementation of your API for your current platform.

Also, if you'll keep getting so "technical" in what is and what is not, you can get into the conclusion that even a game that works on a multiplatform engine is not a native.

In my opinion the discussion about native vs non-native is somewhat artificial. The important bits are stability, performance and support.

Now it happens that Feral games seem to score really really well on three points. That is partially indeed because having less translation layers may score better in terms of performance, but mostly because they simply know how to do their job. There are a lots of examples where a different approach with a general translation layer like dxvk (where the author also very well knows how to do his job) can yield better results than something that is non-optimally coded "natively" on Linux. So as usually, there is no silver bullet, it all depends on a combination of things.

Please don't get me wrong please, I would prefer a Feral game anytime. But not because they are more native than other Linux games, but because their ports are stable, have support and perform really really well.

PS: Some background info on what Feral is actually doing: Vulkanised 2018 - Porting to Vulkan (Alex Smith - Feral Interactive) [External Link]

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Quoting: mrdeathjrIn this proton version

Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing

....

^_^

Would you mind putting all your screenshots in a spoiler tag? Scrolling is somewhat exhausting with that much content.

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Quoting: XpanderThere are actually more platinum ones as some people report issues with really outdated drivers or have distros that doesn't have file description limits increased to use esync.

Yes, but this applies the other way around too. I guess a lot people give a platinum rating if the game barely starts, but this is no indication that a complete play-through with all features (e.g. multiplayer) works without issues.

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I really hope that Valves effort pays off and they succeed in the long term in getting substantially more users to Linux (and Steam). Although eventually there are "just" planning for streaming services with all their effort and Linux Desktop users are considered their testing crowd. I'm fine with both :)

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Quoting: BrisseGot 165 hours according to Steam. Completed the game three times (NG+3) with my main character and did quite a lot of multiplayer as well. Levelled up my character a bit too much (lv181) which I regret because it affects multiplayer matchmaking. People who make pvp characters and such tend to aim for lv120.

Wow, I'm unworthy, these are serious stats. ;) I'm at lvl 74 with some attack power (528), but it gets difficult with very fast or more than one enemy.

Quoting: BrisseIf it gets too frustrating, make sure your weapon is upgraded as much as possible as it makes a huge difference. Maybe pop an ember and summon some sunbros to help out, although be aware that bosses are buffed when you call in phantoms. Manage the stamina bar and don't get greedy. Maybe try and change up your strategy, like rolling instead of blocking. Blocking costs a lot of stamina and rolling gives you a few invincibility frames so if it's timed right you don't take any damage even if it looks like you are getting hit.

Yeah, looking into co-op would be an alternative. Until now I've kept to single player with the exception of one or two invasions of others into my game.

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Quoting: BrisseFor you Proton warriors out there I can recommend Dark Souls II: SotFS and Dark Souls III at 75% off.

Edit: Praise the sale!

I very much concur :)

Slightly OT:
How far did you got with DS3? I have now 60 hours into the game and reached Central Irithyll with all bosses before that taken down, though with a lot of guidance from youtube walkthrough. Actually I'm about to give up since it is such a hard game (although never unfair and really really well made).

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Quoting: GuestEon is slightly worse than that, but it's still miles ahead of wine/proton, since it is at least standalone. As the Proton database grows, the costs of proper support will grow - as each wine version can break previously working games. It is why tools like Playonlinux existed for far longer than proton.

Steam Play has the ability to run multiple Proton version side-by-side. The option "Use this tool instead of game specific selections from Steam" in the Steam Play options hints that certain games will be bound to a certain Proton version. This could reduce the chance of breakage with newer Wine/Proton version.

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