Quoting: Eike

Quoting: jens

Quoting: EikeGerman computer magazine c't ran a test lately. People having been told they were playing at a GaaS system complained - people they didn't tell it didn't even realize it. That probably won't be true for hardcore gamers, but for the majority (as long as their internet connection is good enough) won't see or at least won't care for the difference. (I heart there's people playing at 30 fps out there...!)

Interesting, do you have a link for that?
(Or do you refer to the printed magazine?)

I just read a test in a printed magazine of late 2018 (I'm lagging myself... X) ), but here is a even better new test online:
https://www.heise.de/select/ct/2019/1/1546333965757789 [External Link]

For the records: Parsec was the only of the tested cloud services that had a working Linux client.

Thanks, very interesting. What I took from the video: quite similar with Netflix Gaas wont be the solution for the high-end gamer/consumer, but could be a very attractive alternative for the casual player.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: jensThat said, DXVK clearly wins when looking at availability. Whereas Feral port are usually several months later than the Windows release, Steam Play/DXVK works on day one (if it works). Would be cool if Feral could improve on this side and shorten the time between window and their release date. Dunno what is in their hands though.

How is DXVK and SteamPlay porting? Who would pay 60 to 100 euros for that? No one... If i wanted to play wine games i would stick by the appdb... You know what else works on day one (if it works at all)? Windows...

I'm not much interested in the technical implementation how a game works on Linux, for me it is important that it works. Of course I would prefer a Feral port from all games, they offer the best overall quality (performance, stability, support) on Linux gaming currently. I'm happily waiting for being able to buy Shadow of the Tomb Raider from their store. That said, I'm currently playing Dark Souls 3 using SteamPlay/DXVK and the experience is the same regarding performance and stability. Would I pay on day one for a Steam Play game? Sure, with the assumptions that it works and that there is no chance of a Linux version. I did so with Assetto Corsa Competizione (Early Access). I use Steam Play exclusively for these titles, so my purchase will appear as Linux purchase in the Valve statistics.

PS: Looking at the changelog from ACC 0.3.5 (current version is 0.5.2)you'll find this entry:
- Fixed possible server issue on linux emulators
(https://www.assettocorsa.net/competizione/assetto-corsa-competizione-hotfix-v-0-3-5-is-live-on-steam/ [External Link]
I could have it completely wrong, but this could be a reference to Steam Play, which would be a pretty cool thing, thus Windows game developers having Steam Play in mind during development cycle. But as stated, this entry could mean something entirely different.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: ThetargosYes, there many (not only one) bottlenecks before GaaS is a thing, however, at the rate things are moving, the next 5 years seem rather blurry. I hope things stay pretty similar and the games streaming bubble bursts, alas, I cannot say. Network speed is but one piece of the puzzle, input latency is more critical, plus framerate will be an issue. So my hope is that demanding PC gamers will demand local games rather than streaming. The whole adoption for our platform lies in a conundrum. At least tangibly I've seen people flee W10, sadly, to OSX for the most part and the less for Linux, but still there is a seemingly constant stream of new users, to our overall benefit.

German computer magazine c't ran a test lately. People having been told they were playing at a GaaS system complained - people they didn't tell it didn't even realize it. That probably won't be true for hardcore gamers, but for the majority (as long as their internet connection is good enough) won't see or at least won't care for the difference. (I heart there's people playing at 30 fps out there...!)

Interesting, do you have a link for that?
(Or do you refer to the printed magazine?)

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Quoting: Avehicle7887Nice article and it answers my question of "How does native Dying Light compare to DXVK?" pretty much perfectly. But to be honest, I kinda expected these results since all the native games tested are using OpenGL. Porting houses need to adopt Vulkan the same way Feral did.

OpenGL is still fine for low graphics titles but for intensive games Vulkan is a must.

Yes, and to be fair, when Feral did their Tomb Raider 2013 port Vulkan was simply no option. At that time their work was the best to get on Linux, similar with DX:MD and other Feral games. Naturally when time proceeds other options may evolve, like DXVK, that is able to use a superior approach compared to the options back then. Newer Feral ports that use Vulkan are today the reference in terms of what is possible on Linux, because today their approach offers them more possibilities than what DXVK is able to do.

That said, DXVK clearly wins when looking at availability. Whereas Feral port are usually several months later than the Windows release, Steam Play/DXVK works on day one (if it works). Would be cool if Feral could improve on this side and shorten the time between window and their release date. Dunno what is in their hands though.

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Having a choice seems like a good thing, though I hope that I'll rarely need the option to force Steam Play on a native Linux title in my library.

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Quoting: Xaero_Vincent

Quoting: Leopard

Quoting: Cr1ogenif they want to force Linux games to work with Steamplay because they do not use windows directly? I think it's a step backwards in the fight that Valve has been doing for Linux users

No , with this way Valve guarentees a good gaming experience for Linux users.

Example: A Linux user bought the MotoGPX3 game ( native VP port) but performance wise game is beaten by DXVK with a big margin.

So user can use Windows version without dealing Steam on Lutris.

Valve provides you choice and says " Use what you want"

True but Steam Play falls behind upstream Wine and Wine Staging, so Lutris and POL w/ Windows Steam client is still useful for games that need newer Wine versions. Hopefully Steam Play gets a Wine 4.x re-base shortly after it's release.

Yes. Please keep in mind though that purchasing and playing the first two weeks on Lutris/Windows-Steam will tell Valve that you are a Windows user. If you stay the first two weeks on Linux-Steam/Proton you'll help rising the statistics in favor of Linux.

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Quoting: Comandante Ñoñardo

Quoting: jens

Quoting: Comandante ÑoñardoC'mon, Feral! Hurry up!

I'm waiting too, though I'm mentally preparing myself that Feral waits until all DLC's are out, similar like the release for Rise. But this is just guessing from me, really no idea when something can be expected :)

I suppose I can buy it right now, knowing that Feral will get their cut anyway.

This is what I read, but not sure if this applies here too. I decided to wait until Feral releases, still very much occupied with Dark Souls 3 :), and then order from their store.

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Quoting: Comandante ÑoñardoC'mon, Feral! Hurry up!

I'm waiting too, though I'm mentally preparing myself that Feral waits until all DLC's are out, similar like the release for Rise. But this is just guessing from me, really no idea when something can be expected :)

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I never really looked into Rocket League, but this is indeed how it should work. Very cool news and I hope this serves as a good example.
Happy playing to all Rocketeers!

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Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: jensNow it happens that Feral games seem to score really really well on three points. That is partially indeed because having less translation layers may score better in terms of performance, but mostly because they simply know how to do their job. There are a lots of examples where a different approach with a general translation layer like dxvk (where the author also very well knows how to do his job) can yield better results than something that is non-optimally coded "natively" on Linux. So as usually, there is no silver bullet, it all depends on a combination of things.

Please don't get me wrong please, I would prefer a Feral game anytime. But not because they are more native than other Linux games, but because their ports are stable, have support and perform really really well.

PS: Some background info on what Feral is actually doing: Vulkanised 2018 - Porting to Vulkan (Alex Smith - Feral Interactive) [External Link]

If a port is well made, you'll always get a better performance than with DXVK + wine.

As the video shows, Feral works on making a port for each game doing a analysis of where they can work to get the best speed up. In fact, it also shows how they tries to understand how the driver works (in the case of the open source drivers) so they choose the right strategy. With this said, is quite idiotic to keep trying to see a Feral port as a non native (you're trying to leave their work at the same level as with DXVK + wine, which is definitely not the case!).

I insist in that we must give priority on supporting this companies that do this native ports. They do extremely low level work that improves a lot Linux distro in general, no to mention the quality you get (at least with Feral has been a guarantee for me).

The equation is simple: if I buy a proton supported game, a windows game developer and Steam gets my money (70% for windows only publisher/dev and 30% for proton devs). But if I buy a native port I know that a Linux dev + Steam gets my money (X% for publisher ,Y% for Linux dev and 30% for proton devs). In the end, is all about where we invest our money, and our goal should be to give as much as we can to the ones that improves our OS.

I don't know why you got the impression that I would not care for developers/publishers that release for Linux. That is certainly not the case ;). E.g. I'm eagerly awaiting Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I'll buy it on day one directly from Feral at full price (well except when there is a discount in Feral's store on day one ;))

What I don't mind is the technical aspect how a game is made for Linux as long as it runs fine on my machine (my response was mostly about this) and that it is visible that I'm a Linux player. I have enjoyed Rise of the Tomb Raider and F1 2017 from Feral, but equally enjoyed GTA5 and now Dark Souls 3 using Steam Play. In case of the latter two I ensured that I buy and play from the Linux Steam version to make sure that they appear as Linux purchases in the Steam statistics.

Regarding your last paragraph, the development of DXVK certainly also contributed to the quality of the graphics stack on Linux.

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