What a beautiful surprise. I just update my initial Linux release version to the GOTY edition.
Cool to go back to the agency business ;).

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Quoting: Mountain ManThere was never really a technical hurdle to supporting Linux. We've had OpenGL for years, and id Software's ports and Epic's experiment with Unreal Tournament 2004 proved a long time ago that Linux was more than capable of running AAA games. The real problem was, and still is, market share, and I'm a little concerned that if Valve ever expressed any lack of confidence in the Linux platform that a lot of developers would simply walk away.

I would not underestimate the distribution part. Having a channel to users for paying and actually getting the software is more complex than it sounds.
Now I see market share, same as you, indeed as _the_ concern.

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Quoting: Kimyrielle

Quoting: Mountain ManMy question is, is there enough momentum in the Linux gaming market for developers to continue supporting Linux in the event that Valve gets bored and kills off their grand experiment? That's my primary concern at the moment, that we're almost entirely dependent on Valve and Steam for the majority of our games, and if Valve goes away then we're going to be right back where we were five-years ago with a niche market that only a handful of independent developers even bother to support.

I guess the critical moment was when all major engine creators added Linux support to their products that make it (comparatively) easy to publish cross-platform. There is barely any reason NOT to support Linux these days.

Let's be honest, as a game developer/publisher, Valve has been a non-factor for a while now, so if they chose to stop porting games to Linux, really, who'd notice? And Steam Machines never picked up any steam to begin with. Linux gaming has grown without them just nicely.

No, their great contribution is and was porting the Steam client to Linux in the first place, opening a mainstream publishing channel for developers on Linux for the first time ever. That deed is done and time won't get rolled back on that. The biggest help we're getting from Valve these days is them getting involved in improving Linux drivers and components for gaming. Which should hopefully drive down Linux related support costs and performance issues, which is the LAST sound reason larger studios still have not to publish on Linux.

Yep, they created the infrastructure and now its time for us to support Feral, Aspyr and friends and the Indie studios with our money for investing in Linux. That among other developments on Linux should hopefully gradually attract new users and thus make it more and more financial feasible to support Linux gaming.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: jensI assume here that you agree that only increased market share will make Linux grow. But because you bought it as a Window game the sell strengthens the Windows platform and weakens Linux.

In this case it doesn't help, since Aspyr have some kind of issue with GOG. I.e. Aspyr know perfectly well they are losing sales, but that didn't in any way help them release it on GOG as we can see. So for me Aspyr are out of the picture altogether, I'm buying the game made by Obsidian, not by Aspyr. And it's an old game which Obdidian aren't going to port to Linux. It's same reason I don't mind buying older Windows only games on GOG. Developers moved on long ago.

So your comparison is invalid. You are buying DRMed games from developers / publishers who have the choice to release them DRM-free. And doing so you are supporting their bad behavior with your money.

I think you are missing my point. I guess this comes due to different long term interests between you and me. My assumption is that you are primary interested in getting DRM out of the world, no matter what. My primary interest is to make Linux a serious platform on the Desktop (thus market share similar to Mac of better), no matter what. These targets seem related, but I would say they are not, they even contradict each other. You value a DRM-free buy the most. I value a buy that counts for Linux the most.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: jensI'll rephrase: Would you prefer to buy the DRM-free Windows version of a game or the Steam version of its Linux version? I think this is the case with Observer and may be Everspace.

If there is a Linux version on Steam and not on GOG, while the game is available on GOG, I normally wouldn't buy it at all. I think the only exception is KoTOR II, which is a rather old game. In case of Everspace and Observer, I'm waiting for Linux versions to come out DRM-free.

Thank you for mostly sticking to your principles. But since you made an exception for KoTOR II (which is btw a cool, except from the last chapter), I can elaborate a little bit on that.

I guess you bought this game since you wanted to play it, short term entertainment. Now looking from the outside this is actually an action that is quite contrary with what you want in the long term, making Linux more popular, make it a first class citizen within the gaming platforms. I assume here that you agree that only increased market share will make Linux grow. But because you bought it as a Window game the sell strengthens the Windows platform and weakens Linux. Pretty destructive actually and not really rational considering your primary goal ;). You said that decisions from Executives are beyond any rationale and you disrespect people that wants to push DRM everywhere since it only gives a feeling of control but no financial win. Well, I could say same here with you. Buying a game for windows is not really rationale, regardless DRM or not, if you want Linux to grow. You could say "it was just one game", an Executive could say: "With DRM I'm loosing just 1% sells due to Linux market". I could say the behavior you despite and yours are not that different, just completely on the opposite site. ;)

My point is: It is really not just black and white. It is just to easy to condemn other as idiots that think or act differently. People have their principles, if they are wrong or not is not absolute but depends on context and goals. Furthermore people tend to bend their own rules once these rules become inconvenient. Note that I'm not saying DRM is the way to go.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: jensBut you do know that it is kind of hypocrite if you are advocating Linux everywhere but would buy lets say Tomb Raider 2013 for Windows when there is a Linux port?

I wouldn't buy Tomb Raider 2013 at all. It's not available DRM-free.

Sorry, my bad, wrong example. :)
I'll rephrase: Would you prefer to buy the DRM-free Windows version of a game or the Steam version of its Linux version? I think this is the case with Observer and may be Everspace.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: jensThat is a rather evasive response to my question. :)

Point is, I don't see Aspyr or Feral putting any effort into going outside of Steam lock-in.

I'll repeat my question:
But you do know that it is kind of hypocrite if you are advocating Linux everywhere but would buy lets say Tomb Raider 2013 for Windows when there is a Linux port? I know Feral/Aspyr games are not on your favorite distribution channel, but would your Linux support end when it concerns a title like this?

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: jensI know Feral/Aspyr games are not on your favorite distribution channel

I don't like Steam exclusivity any more than Windows exclusivity. But when DRM is thrown in, it makes it even worse.

That is a rather evasive response to my question. :)

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Quoting: Comandante ÑoñardoI was trying to install the Windows DRMFREE version on wine staging 2.19 64 bit...
The install process was fine until the setup was trying to install Microsoft Visual C ++ 2015 resulting in a series of errors

This is the punishment of the Linux Gods for buying the windows version instead of the one for Linux :):)

Sorry, no wine knowledge here, can't help you with this error.

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Quoting: Comandante Ñoñardo

Quoting: BeamboomThe whole problem here is that we call these releases "ports", when they in fact are "wrapped". Nobody expects a game run in Wine to be on par with Windows performance. We should apply that same expectation on these games.

They are not ported, the source code is not "translated" to run natively. They have had added an extra layer so that they don't NEED to be ported. This is a crucial difference.

And from THAT perspective, these releases are pretty damn impressive. They are like Wine on steroids, with a 100% smooth experience and pretty darn good performance.

They just are NOT ports.

Sadly, the actual Linux gaming porting scenario consist in legally crack a windows port of a console game for to make it work on a Linux machine.


Now, I don't want Linux game porters/crackers, I want true Linux game developers.

If someday I have a game "porting" company, my method will be this:
1. Get the publishing rights
2. Get the game assets and code
3. Develop a game using those assets that must look and behave identical to the original console/windows game.

The result will not be a Linux port of a Windows/console game; it will be a Linux version of that Windows/console game.

This method will take more time, but the result will be better and indeed it can be done at the same time of the console/windows development stage.

And, unlike a Linux port of a Windows port of a console game, a Linux version can include features that the original Windows/console don't have, such as better textures, better physics or even extra levels to play.

Yes, this is the perfect world. I would prefer that developers take Linux from the beginning into account too. But it won't happen for AAA games unless it will become realistic to sell something like 1 million copies (just a guess, but certainly not much less) of a game solemnly on Linux. That's still a long road to go (explained here https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/observer-is-a-fantastic-brain-hacking-horror-adventure-my-thoughts.10644/comment_id=107101 :) ).

For now we have to stick to games that are afterwards modified to run on Linux (and we need to buy them!!!). But to be honest, it is the result that counts. The quality of Feral/Aspyr/VP etc. reached an astonishing level. I don't mind the small performance penalty or the knowledge that it could be better. The games are rock solid, beautiful, very smooth and fast enough to keep me enjoyed for a long time.

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