Quoting: GuestIt started to calm down, and we probably don't want it flaring up again.

Not really no but indeed it'd be nice if some folk learn to stop being so paranoid.

Quoting: GuestQuite a few issues have been discussed quite a bit, and I hazard to guess that any real contributions will be much rarer now.

Discussed no, discussed would mean an improvement has happened through finding a compromise which clearly hasn't been reached.
Raised those issues seeing where they lie yes that has been done. And you guessed right the people who are promising us doom just because of a CoC have said their piece already and we've heard it all way before the CoC was adopted.

Quoting: GuestLet's all see where things goes.

Have been my first answer all along and I have repeated it time and again.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyOn the Code of Conduct itself: I'm willing to believe the wording has problems that may need to be worked out. Wording is hard, wording that sort of thing is particularly hard. It may also be that a CoC can't really be a cureall because the governance structure itself at the Linux Kernel has problems that need to be worked out--indeed, if it has none that would be a first in human history.

But does there need to be some sort of Code of Conduct taken fairly seriously at the Linux kernel? Oh hell yeah. Come on, could we get real?

Again at the risk of repeating myself for the upteenth time I'm bisexual and non-binary person trust me I'm all in favour of rewording and making it a bit more precise because right now this is waaaaay too vague. Even worse it splits the LGBTQ community even more than it already is precisely because it's too vague for its own good.
And again if this CoC is truly there to protect women and marginalized populations then maybe talk with said marginals and asked them "If this is too vague what should be specificly in there so that it is protecting you correctly" .

Like I said none of us managed to create our first program and have it work on first try we all made mistakes when we tried coding something for the first time on our own. Same goes here the fact that they finally want to put one in place , good by all means do so . On the other hand when your attempt gets criticized understand that it's because we want it to be improved.

Heck the simple lince
"Use inclusive language ..." this line alone is so vague that even me I can interpret it in three different ways. What do they mean exactly by inclusive ... etc etc

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Quoting: JoyfulDarterWhat do completely unsourced claims about economics have to do with anything? Really interesting how you had to put the caveat "except in the US" considering Marvel's comic branch is experiencing some incredibly low sales numbers.

Unsourced so I guess you're too lazy to check "comics industry revenue in country X" on google ...
Again both industries all over the world rake in more money than ever but suuuurrrrrreeee being a bit more inclusive ruins everything ...

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Quoting: Guest
Personally, my main contention is the extension of the CoC to spaces outside of the mailing list. If was just there it would be a bit more palatable and somewhat reasonable given that it's a professional space. I'd hate to banned over a bit of trash talk in a live stream or video that isn't associated with my work.

In other words :
With a begruding tone in minaka's voice "Okaaaay fiiine I'll hold my tongue in the common place but the minute I'm in a more private space you'll let me hurl out all my bile anyway"

Which basically means that the CoC was indeed needed since apparently without its presence you consider the mailing list a free for all ...

If that's not how you meant it then you sure made a piss poor job at conveying otherwise.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: DolusHere, is a little something that might blow your mind: I do not care. I do not care about a contributors sexuality, religion or political affiliation. If their contributions make Linux a better kernel, they should be allowed to contribute. That is how it should be. Instead we now have these neon haired puritans

So, not their sexuality, religion or political affiliation, but you do care about the colour of their hair.

This is the thing with them is that they can't even keep the pretending game for more than a sentence. They always reveal themselves in less than a few minutes. And then they get upset when we walk away telling them that they will be welcomed once they have dropped being dehumanizing to their fellow humans.
I mean guys your behaviourial patternss have been floating around for millennias on end we KNOW YOU you've been our torturers for not just centuries but two whole milleniums . It was fun while it lasted now we're done playing your game and moved to our game. Deal with it or walk away from the table.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: tonR

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: tonRp/s: I'm suspicious.. All this bullshit happen on weird time where technology world nearing "the junction" ... Coincidence??

Again that's consipiracy talk.
Or let me rephrase it another way :
When you take an even just surface level course in polemology you see that civil rights movement across history has a tendency to pop up when the economical and technical situation of a group gets comfortable enough that those questions can become one of the focus of said community.

It is in fact according to all polemologist a good sign that the community is indeed living through a golden period.

So yes until now some members of the community have piped down and suffered in silence but suffered nonetheless. And now that we're getting a bit comfy because we're being listened to and being heard as an overarching family, some members are demanding basic respect to be where it never was.

So the timing is not suspicious looking in fact the very fact that that kind of convos are at the full front these days and considered news worthy just goes to show that we're getting legit and recognized by outsider groups.

Come on, I'm sorry, not grinding any conspiracy. I'm just saying because almost 10 years I'm following Linux news, this year (2018) lots of huge development happening in Linux community. So, that's why I little suspicious when this (or any) outrages happens. After all, I'm human. Suspicious is part on human life, cannot avoid it.

Move on topic, everything aren't black and white. We need to discuss the CoC fast.

p/s: Don't want to p/s anymore.. :'(

If you don't want to appear like you're throwing conspiracy talk maybe don't be dismissive.

In other words in the PS of yours that I originally quoted the use of the word bullshit made you sound dismissive of the issue altogether.

Again even the folk that this CoC is supposed to protect , queer folk like me , or women aren't agreeing with the current one because we all agree on the fact that it's exploitable as all hell.
Where we DO disagree is on the necessity to have a CoC and the nay sayers are just rabid and downright aggressive. Again folk like me who are the "target that this shield is suppose to protect" we are used to CoC's and also have our objections. We just refuse to be dehumanized just because some dudes are upset because we're telling them "no you can't say the F word no more" .

Perhaps you would do "folk like you", as you put it, more favors by being less hostile towards people calling for civility in debates like these.

The person I was answering to feels fine the only one seeing "hostility" is you and others like you who don't like being told that they can be dehumanizing at times not because they want to but because they have been raised in a culture that told them that it was okay and normal to shit on people like me that it was doing us a service...

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Quoting: slaapliedjeWhat it comes down to is this;

Code used to be accepted based on the merit of the code itself, which is exactly how open source projects should be. It's all about the code. Now the problem is if someone submits code that is bad, and the maintainers state that the code is bad, and needs to be changed, the person submitting the could can play the 'transphobic' card. "You just don't like the code because I wrote it, and you hate me for $reasons!" Which means people will be pressured into accepting crappy code, and the project fails.

In order to "play the discrimination card" there is a need for it to be playable in the first place and if the message is truly just a simple "look your reasoning is wrong on that line because X and Y , over here at line 364 I would have used this instead" etc , then you have nothing to fear because again as you said it yourself the only thing that is discussed is that code.

Again the CoC is nothing more than a "How to NOT be a jackass" is it really asking for the moon ?

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Quoting: JoyfulDarterThis happened to video games (both with developers and the gaming press) and it happened to comic books. Don't let Linux be next.

Funny how both of your examples are industries that are experiencing an unprecedented economical golden age in every country of the world except in the US right now ...
If it was that much of a power grab that brings nothing on the table and ruins everything how come the economics all across the globe disagrees with you so much ?

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Quoting: GuestCoding was only fun when i was aloud to be an a**hole is how i read this

Yep and sadly you're not alone reading this because that's really all it says.

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Quoting: MechkitSo the summary is (?):
CoC: "If you are so hostile you create a toxic environment that affects development, we may ask you leave if you do not stop."

People that this may apply to: "Help! Help! I'm being oppressed."

This just this ...

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