Quoting: tonR

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: tonR

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: tonRp/s: I'm suspicious.. All this bullshit happen on weird time where technology world nearing "the junction" ... Coincidence??

Again that's consipiracy talk.
Or let me rephrase it another way :
When you take an even just surface level course in polemology you see that civil rights movement across history has a tendency to pop up when the economical and technical situation of a group gets comfortable enough that those questions can become one of the focus of said community.

It is in fact according to all polemologist a good sign that the community is indeed living through a golden period.

So yes until now some members of the community have piped down and suffered in silence but suffered nonetheless. And now that we're getting a bit comfy because we're being listened to and being heard as an overarching family, some members are demanding basic respect to be where it never was.

So the timing is not suspicious looking in fact the very fact that that kind of convos are at the full front these days and considered news worthy just goes to show that we're getting legit and recognized by outsider groups.

Come on, I'm sorry, not grinding any conspiracy. I'm just saying because almost 10 years I'm following Linux news, this year (2018) lots of huge development happening in Linux community. So, that's why I little suspicious when this (or any) outrages happens. After all, I'm human. Suspicious is part on human life, cannot avoid it.

Move on topic, everything aren't black and white. We need to discuss the CoC fast.

p/s: Don't want to p/s anymore.. :'(

If you don't want to appear like you're throwing conspiracy talk maybe don't be dismissive.
Again even the folk that this CoC is suppose to protect , queer folk like me , or women aren't agreeing with the current one because we all agree on the fact that it's exploitable as all hell.
Where we DO disagree is on the necessity to have a CoC and the nay sayers are just rabid and downright aggressive. Again folk like me who are the "target that this shield is suppose to protect" we are used to CoC's and also have our objections. We just refuse to be dehumanized just because some dudes are upset because we're telling them "no you can't say the F word no more" .

In other words in the PS of yours that I originally quoted the use of the word bullshit made you sound dismissive of the issue altogether.

I'm understand. I should need to be careful next time. And also improve my English further. Thank you for explaination.. Again, I'm sorry..

It's okay you have nothing to be sorry about. It's just that your wording was unfortunate and rather than just telling you about wrong choice of words I also gave you a reminder that it is precisely because Linux is experiencing a golden age that now marginalized minorities within the community feel comfortable making their voices being heard.
That it was not surprising at all , that there was not some weird reptilian conspiracy at play just that because now we have the time to have those convos they are poping like they always do in every community. ;)

Heck over here they pop up in the manga fans event organizations these days. When I was a teen and the first edition of Japan Expo happen , they were way to busy making the convention even work period to even have the time to think about it. Now that Japan Expo is a staple and won't go away anytime soon they have the time to adress that and they have putten in place a CoC too for attendants of the convention ;)

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Quoting: tonR

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: tonRp/s: I'm suspicious.. All this bullshit happen on weird time where technology world nearing "the junction" ... Coincidence??

Again that's consipiracy talk.
Or let me rephrase it another way :
When you take an even just surface level course in polemology you see that civil rights movement across history has a tendency to pop up when the economical and technical situation of a group gets comfortable enough that those questions can become one of the focus of said community.

It is in fact according to all polemologist a good sign that the community is indeed living through a golden period.

So yes until now some members of the community have piped down and suffered in silence but suffered nonetheless. And now that we're getting a bit comfy because we're being listened to and being heard as an overarching family, some members are demanding basic respect to be where it never was.

So the timing is not suspicious looking in fact the very fact that that kind of convos are at the full front these days and considered news worthy just goes to show that we're getting legit and recognized by outsider groups.

Come on, I'm sorry, not grinding any conspiracy. I'm just saying because almost 10 years I'm following Linux news, this year (2018) lots of huge development happening in Linux community. So, that's why I little suspicious when this (or any) outrages happens. After all, I'm human. Suspicious is part on human life, cannot avoid it.

Move on topic, everything aren't black and white. We need to discuss the CoC fast.

p/s: Don't want to p/s anymore.. :'(

If you don't want to appear like you're throwing conspiracy talk maybe don't be dismissive.

In other words in the PS of yours that I originally quoted the use of the word bullshit made you sound dismissive of the issue altogether.

Again even the folk that this CoC is supposed to protect , queer folk like me , or women aren't agreeing with the current one because we all agree on the fact that it's exploitable as all hell.
Where we DO disagree is on the necessity to have a CoC and the nay sayers are just rabid and downright aggressive. Again folk like me who are the "target that this shield is suppose to protect" we are used to CoC's and also have our objections. We just refuse to be dehumanized just because some dudes are upset because we're telling them "no you can't say the F word no more" .

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Quoting: jarhead_hGuys, these people already ruined FreeBSD, and they will happily chase away every talented dev there is and burn Linux to the ground if it means they can rule over the ashes. Just going to leave this here

Again who exactly are "these" ?
And once again at the risk of repeating myself when it comes to freebsd the migration of people towards other BSD distros has been an on going problem already way before their CoC has been putten in place for the simple reason that long time influential and well respected contributors were moving toward a more porfessional and company driven distrubution aka TureOS.

Heck even the leaders at TrueOS are blaming themselves of "robbing FreeBSD of a lot of newbies" ...

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Quoting: tonRp/s: I'm suspicious.. All this bullshit happen on weird time where technology world nearing "the junction" ... Coincidence??

Again that's consipiracy talk.
Or let me rephrase it another way :
When you take an even just surface level course in polemology you see that civil rights movement across history has a tendency to pop up when the economical and technical situation of a group gets comfortable enough that those questions can become one of the focus of said community.

It is in fact according to all polemologist a good sign that the community is indeed living through a golden period.

So yes until now some members of the community have piped down and suffered in silence but suffered nonetheless. And now that we're getting a bit comfy because we're being listened to and being heard as an overarching family, some members are demanding basic respect to be where it never was.

So the timing is not suspicious looking in fact the very fact that that kind of convos are at the full front these days and considered news worthy just goes to show that we're getting legit and recognized by outsider groups.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: DolusSo this is what the GoL community is? People that will accuse you of being a Nazi (or what passes for one these days) for not going along with what they are pushing politically. Well, if that's the way you want it...

Incorrect. I've been asking you to back up your statements. Believe me, I would not equate you to a Nazi (unsure of the reference - I presume some picture implied that?) and would encourage people to avoid saying that.
I am disagreeing with you, and trying to be polite about it. You're making broad statements where evidence suggests otherwise. Try calming down, then reply in a more reasoned tone. Absolutely no reason we can't be civil here while disagreeing.

See Dolus ? I ain't even the only one to tell it to you .
You're so broad so vague so unspecific and your choice of words clearly conveys such an angry tone to such a high degree that we can't take you seriously.
And no wether you like it or not right now you are not arguing in good faith.
Or at least right now you're downright uncapable to convince us that you're arguing in good faith. So once again take a break go breathe outside and maybe come back with something more built than what you've been throwin around until now.

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Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: GuestWhere? I'm not seeing it. Are you referring to twitter, where there's no call to have someone removed? I see an example about what to do with reporting CoC violations, and actually someone who is trying to say that the CoC is not proper in the current form (precisely because it lacks clear guidelines about what do when the people you should report it to, are the ones you believe are violating it).

If you're referring to something else, can you please point me to it? Again, I'm not seeing anyone actually call for someone to be stopped from contributing.

Posting accurate stats on different types of sexual abuse SEVEN years ago is a COC violation, is it?

I'm sorry, you appear to be reading something other than what I wrote. Allow me to be more clear: you stated that there were now witch hunts to have people removed from contributing to the kernel, because they could now use the CoC for that purpose.

I'm saying they are not. I believe you are referring to something on twitter, and the link I believe you are referring to was a discussion (though it doesn't seem to be quite that polite) about the CoC being improper. No calls to have anyone stopped from contributing were actually in there, so...no witch hunt in that link.

Did you read the posts, it's sounding like you didn't.

And see here I'm not the only one telling to you :

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: DolusSo this is what the GoL community is? People that will accuse you of being a Nazi (or what passes for one these days) for not going along with what they are pushing politically. Well, if that's the way you want it...

Incorrect. I've been asking you to back up your statements. Believe me, I would not equate you to a Nazi (unsure of the reference - I presume some picture implied that?) and would encourage people to avoid saying that.
I am disagreeing with you, and trying to be polite about it. You're making broad statements where evidence suggests otherwise. Try calming down, then reply in a more reasoned tone. Absolutely no reason we can't be civil here while disagreeing.

I'm asking you to provide the link where it does show that someone is now being asked to "go away" and using the CoC to back that up.

Nope. The Twitter post is a former kernel maintainer (who still has connections with current maintainers) pointing out something a contributor posted seven years ago about rape statistics. And it's very interesting when you look at what Theo Ts'o works on. Drumming him out opens the door to Intel to get their hardware based randomization into the kernel, which will all but certainly be a back door.

So...no witch hunt then? No asking to have anyone stopped from contributing? Because that's exactly what you said was happening. And if it's not, then it kind of doesn't do much to backup anything else you're saying. You see, I read that twitter as someone using a personal example to showcase a problem with the CoC. Obviously there's bad blood in there, but it doesn't alter the main point. And whether you're trying to now go after that someone is also irrelevant: the point is that there are no calls to have anyone blocked.

I must admit, it actually looks like you are on a personal witch hunt. I am not suggesting you are doing so intentionally, only that it has such an appearance. I do, however, suggest you provide proper backup information to further contribute to this conversation, or else you will not get any points you're trying to make be taken seriously.

Did you not read the green hair's posts? If you did and you're saying this, you're being disingenuous.

I'm stating that you were factually wrong. Your attempts to side track from that by introducing your own personal vendetta against someone only weaken your position further.

And make you exactly what you're blaming others of being.

Personal vendetta? I've never interacted with this person. And I'm not citing any rules they've broken to get them into hot water. I DO, however, see them doing REAL harm to people making real contributions to Linux. And pardon me for not wanting Linux to end up like FreeBSD. In a death spiral.

Your language about them has been less than friendly. About someone you've never met. Who has done nothing you've described. To try validate some viewpoint that is not the current situation, and is highly unlikely to be.

And? So I'm not nice? That doesn't make me a nazi. It doesn't make me a bigot. I never even commented on anything of that nature. But out came THAT accusation. Kinda fascistic behavior there.

Again we're not saying you are a facist but look maybe using a shaekspirian quote will suit you better ...
"The lady DOTH protest too much"
In other words right now you're so heated and your choice of words is so poor that indeed you make yourself SOUND like a facist indeed.
So maybe take a break go breathe outside and come back to us once you're able to articulate your point of view in a detailed manner that doesn't leave any room for ambiguity at all ...

Ah, so you're accusing me without actually accusing me. "I'm not saying he beats his wife, but...".

You just demonstrated my point with that reply alone...

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Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: GuestWhere? I'm not seeing it. Are you referring to twitter, where there's no call to have someone removed? I see an example about what to do with reporting CoC violations, and actually someone who is trying to say that the CoC is not proper in the current form (precisely because it lacks clear guidelines about what do when the people you should report it to, are the ones you believe are violating it).

If you're referring to something else, can you please point me to it? Again, I'm not seeing anyone actually call for someone to be stopped from contributing.

Posting accurate stats on different types of sexual abuse SEVEN years ago is a COC violation, is it?

I'm sorry, you appear to be reading something other than what I wrote. Allow me to be more clear: you stated that there were now witch hunts to have people removed from contributing to the kernel, because they could now use the CoC for that purpose.

I'm saying they are not. I believe you are referring to something on twitter, and the link I believe you are referring to was a discussion (though it doesn't seem to be quite that polite) about the CoC being improper. No calls to have anyone stopped from contributing were actually in there, so...no witch hunt in that link.

Did you read the posts, it's sounding like you didn't.

I'm asking you to provide the link where it does show that someone is now being asked to "go away" and using the CoC to back that up.

Nope. The Twitter post is a former kernel maintainer (who still has connections with current maintainers) pointing out something a contributor posted seven years ago about rape statistics. And it's very interesting when you look at what Theo Ts'o works on. Drumming him out opens the door to Intel to get their hardware based randomization into the kernel, which will all but certainly be a back door.

So...no witch hunt then? No asking to have anyone stopped from contributing? Because that's exactly what you said was happening. And if it's not, then it kind of doesn't do much to backup anything else you're saying. You see, I read that twitter as someone using a personal example to showcase a problem with the CoC. Obviously there's bad blood in there, but it doesn't alter the main point. And whether you're trying to now go after that someone is also irrelevant: the point is that there are no calls to have anyone blocked.

I must admit, it actually looks like you are on a personal witch hunt. I am not suggesting you are doing so intentionally, only that it has such an appearance. I do, however, suggest you provide proper backup information to further contribute to this conversation, or else you will not get any points you're trying to make be taken seriously.

Did you not read the green hair's posts? If you did and you're saying this, you're being disingenuous.

I'm stating that you were factually wrong. Your attempts to side track from that by introducing your own personal vendetta against someone only weaken your position further.

And make you exactly what you're blaming others of being.

Personal vendetta? I've never interacted with this person. And I'm not citing any rules they've broken to get them into hot water. I DO, however, see them doing REAL harm to people making real contributions to Linux. And pardon me for not wanting Linux to end up like FreeBSD. In a death spiral.

Your language about them has been less than friendly. About someone you've never met. Who has done nothing you've described. To try validate some viewpoint that is not the current situation, and is highly unlikely to be.

And? So I'm not nice? That doesn't make me a nazi. It doesn't make me a bigot. I never even commented on anything of that nature. But out came THAT accusation. Kinda fascistic behavior there.

Again we're not saying you are a facist but look maybe using a shaekspirian quote will suit you better ...
"The lady DOTH protest too much"
In other words right now you're so heated and your choice of words is so poor that indeed you make yourself SOUND like a facist indeed.
So maybe take a break go breathe outside and come back to us once you're able to articulate your point of view in a detailed manner that doesn't leave any room for ambiguity at all ...

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Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: LonsforImagine believing that a text file somehow gives more power to the maintainers that already have all the power and that its somehow a conspiracy by the ESSS YEY DOBLEUUUs in the year 2018

This just this just fucking this. As a bisexual non binary person I often hear a ton of unsavory things being thrown around. And having a tiny sheet of paper that literally doesn't do more than just say "could we not please , can we for once just not throw that kind of garbage talk around and dehumanize each others" somehow is too much ?
Sorry but no time and again I have seen that we need a CoC.

On the other hand boy oh boy is the one adopted by the Linux foundation vague as all fuck and exploitable as all hell. That on the other hand is really true. But we are tech minded people sooo raise your hands those who managed to shit out a program that worked on first try ? .... I thought as much ...

Don't confuse 'power' with 'influence'. And this CoC was designed to be abused.

Look mate I have read every single one of your responses in that comment section and maybe it ain't your intention but right now this what you made yourself sound like wether you like it or not :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXD3X_HU0AAwrYo.jpg [External Link]

Cute. And I bet Liam is just going to let that slide too. But it's amusing that you go right to calling me a Nazi just because I point out that this CoC isn't just about "being nice".

Except that the picture I have chosen is a picture of a very specific fictional character that represents the :
"disingenuous troll playing devil's advocate that ends up making himself sound like a nazi because he doesn't know the bloody difference" .

In other words you come across as having an irrational fear that probaly feels legitimate to you but you're going about it in such a disingenuous way that yes you sound borderline Maurician ...

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Quoting: LonsforImagine believing that a text file somehow gives more power to the maintainers that already have all the power and that its somehow a conspiracy by the ESSS YEY DOBLEUUUs in the year 2018

This just this just fucking this. As a bisexual non binary person I often hear a ton of unsavory things being thrown around. And having a tiny sheet of paper that literally doesn't do more than just say "could we not please , can we for once just not throw that kind of garbage talk around and dehumanize each others" somehow is too much ?
Sorry but no time and again I have seen that we need a CoC.

On the other hand boy oh boy is the one adopted by the Linux foundation vague as all fuck and exploitable as all hell. That on the other hand is really true. But we are tech minded people sooo raise your hands those who managed to shit out a program that worked on first try ? .... I thought as much ...

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Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: TheSyldatSo sorry hate to break it to you but from where I am they are doing better than ever...

Then you're in la-la land. FreeBSD is falling like a rock, and it'll drag everything based off of it down with it.

FreeBSD = only one distribution out of many
BSD community = all distributions lumped together.
I dunno in the US (or elswhere than in my home country) and I don't wanna know about those outside countries current state of affairs. As far as "BSD overarching families" in France (so my home country) once again the community has never been more active and more valued and asked about and never receive that much outside attention. So again from where I'm sitting they're doing better than ever.
So again keep your paranoïa to yourself.

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