#preordered.

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Quoting: webcreature

Quoting: appetrosyan

Quoting: julespetrikov

Quoting: webcreatureI disagree! When the propriator of the one OS that is pre-installed on almost every sold gaming ready PC, decides to pre configure this OS to a default that makes Steam incompatible, and when the user has to change that configuration against warnings that tell him this step might be dangerous, then a big percentage of mostly new users will not do that. And that will shrink the user-base potential for Steam, not actual numbers of course.
OR.. people decide to use an alternate OS instead, which I'd like very much of course.. Do you believe in it?

"pre-installed on almost every sold gaming ready PC"

That's the case, they can't do that. That's bad business. That's exactly why Windows 10 S is not the choice for gaming or production, because it's not intended to run all the games and it's not commercialised as one. Same goes for ChromeOS, Android etc. It's much like how people were asking "How the hell SteamOS will replace Windows" in the early days and got the most obvious answer: It's not intended to do that. S Mode itself is not a profitable way of selling gaming ready PCs, since consumer is not always the idiot, but it's a good way of ripping off people.

There's absolutely no possible future in which Microsoft won the gaming industry by such a move. It's just plain dumb. You can't just force an incompatible OS in a market that demands a compatible OS. That won't force people to buy things from their Stores, it will force consumer away from Microsoft and Windows. To Mac and Linux, mainly.

I'm not trying to justify their point here. Just telling people: SteamOS and Windows 10 S or Windows 10 S Mode or whatever stupid thing they could put forward has no relevance at all.

Spoken like someone who knows business. Seriously though, they won't go that route, as they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. And Valve are still not pushing Steam OS, as they're likely waiting for the Wayland Conundrum to finally wear down and get to work.

MS definitely made Windows S for a reason. I think it comes close to what MS would find ideal for their future, and what they might try to achieve with Windows CoreOS. MS can't control Win32, but they definitely want to control things on Windows more.
On the other side no gamer in his right mind would buy S for gaming, and no gamer in his right mind would switch to S-Mode for gaming. Non gamers, or "not yet gamers" on the other hand might never even try out Steam or GOG or certain open source software because they're in S Mode and they don't want to switch for "security reasons" or because they even had to pay for it.
Even if MS had not gaming specifically in mind when they developed S, Win32 gaming conflicts with their interests. For them it would be best if gaming would come to UWP and let the rest be lagacy. They made UWP for a reason...
Now, of course I'm not saying the will succeed with it, I just say if they could choose, it would be that way, or something similar. Fortunately MS has a history of "wanting to much at once and p!ssing people of with it", so all of this could make some more people switch to Linux. If they do not succeed with it, as you say, I'd say they do have to change plans... again..
If it is in fact untrue, that they try to influence OEMs to pre-configure S-Mode on certain game capable devices, then all of the said things are irrelevant of course. We'll see..

But isn't Microsoft alreadly making S-Mode or UWP games - pretty well everything they publish on the Xbox is cross compatible with UWP.

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Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: NanobangYay! I'll no longer have to squint to use Steam's desktop client on my 1080p TV---as soon as I figure out how/where to set the "environment variable'GDK_SCALE=2'" for the Steam client. :P

No, really. Someone please help me.

Please.

The safest way to set the variable only for Steam is to copy /usr/share/applications/steam.desktop to ~/.local/share/applications/, then edit the copied file and add the variable to the exec line. If your line looks like mine Exec=sh -c 'STEAM_FRAME_FORCE_CLOSE=1 steam' %U just change it to Exec=sh -c 'GDK_SCALE=2 STEAM_FRAME_FORCE_CLOSE=1 steam' %U
You can undo the change by deleting your custom desktop file.

Remember to change your desktop and panel launchers as well if you've got them. You're on XFCE so you should be able to just right click the icon and choose "Edit Launcher" if I recall correctly.

Need more dumbing down for me. I see the Steam.Desktop file in the applications folder - I see a number of exec lines but nothing that looks like yours. Should I just add it?

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Quoting: qptain Nemo

Quoting: GrazenHere is a link discussing WCOS:

https://www.windowscentral.com/understanding-windows-core-os-and-polaris [External Link]

Note that WCOS is not Windows S.

That is hilarious. They're literally selling... Linux. The Linux paradigm. All the best Linux features. (Closed platform bits aside) Brilliant.

That's exactly what I think!

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Quoting: Grazen

Quoting: liamdaweJust wanted to say thanks for all the feedback :)

Quoting: 14I see this S version as a separate offering. I don't think anybody needs to get scared or spread a doom message to their poor Windows friends.

Did you read the source? It previously was a separate SKU, now it's going to be included with all versions of Windows.

Quoting: 14Other articles of this type on this site have been a bit more reasonable than this one. This one feels a little... slash-dot-ie.

I literally have no idea what "slash-dot-ie" is even supposed to mean.

Quoting: GrazenUnderstood, my point is just that the next version of Windows - now called Windows Core OS (not related to the Core OS that Red Hat just bought) - will be a massive upgrade similar to the upgrade to Windows NT 20 years ago. This will be a bigger threat than Windows 10 S - and Liam's article as a result is already dated. The threat however, is even bigger than the hyperbole in his article.

The article is based on a source that's only a few days old (how is that "already dated"?), that has new information on how Windows 10 S will work. Again, like I said above, it's going to be included with all versions of Windows.

As for "hyperbole". The only part of that article that could even remotely be classed as that is the end of it, but those are future possibilities. I didn't say they actual will happen, I said they're questions.

Editorials are opinion pieces, it's from my personal perspective and meant as a talking point, do keep that in mind folks. If you don't agree, that's fine :)

I see the threat as severe because Windows Core OS will bring obvious useful benefits to users, unlike Windows 10 S, which is built on Windows 10 Pro and then hobbled. There is little to no reason for anyone to want 10S, but there will be performance, useability, compatibility and other benefits to Windows Core OS. If there are benefits, users will eventually migrate to it. There will be no migration to 10 S.

Here is a link discussing WCOS:

https://www.windowscentral.com/understanding-windows-core-os-and-polaris [External Link]

Note that WCOS is not Windows S.

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Quoting: liamdaweJust wanted to say thanks for all the feedback :)

Quoting: 14I see this S version as a separate offering. I don't think anybody needs to get scared or spread a doom message to their poor Windows friends.

Did you read the source? It previously was a separate SKU, now it's going to be included with all versions of Windows.

Quoting: 14Other articles of this type on this site have been a bit more reasonable than this one. This one feels a little... slash-dot-ie.

I literally have no idea what "slash-dot-ie" is even supposed to mean.

Quoting: GrazenUnderstood, my point is just that the next version of Windows - now called Windows Core OS (not related to the Core OS that Red Hat just bought) - will be a massive upgrade similar to the upgrade to Windows NT 20 years ago. This will be a bigger threat than Windows 10 S - and Liam's article as a result is already dated. The threat however, is even bigger than the hyperbole in his article.

The article is based on a source that's only a few days old (how is that "already dated"?), that has new information on how Windows 10 S will work. Again, like I said above, it's going to be included with all versions of Windows.

As for "hyperbole". The only part of that article that could even remotely be classed as that is the end of it, but those are future possibilities. I didn't say they actual will happen, I said they're questions.

Editorials are opinion pieces, it's from my personal perspective and meant as a talking point, do keep that in mind folks. If you don't agree, that's fine :)

I see the threat as severe because Windows Core OS will bring obvious useful benefits to users, unlike Windows 10 S, which is built on Windows 10 Pro and then hobbled. There is little to no reason for anyone to want 10S, but there will be performance, useability, compatibility and other benefits to Windows Core OS. If there are benefits, users will eventually migrate to it. There will be no migration to 10 S.

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Quoting: TheRiddickValve GOG etc will just haft to pay Microsoft to get access to their user-base in the future. IT WILL HAPPEN, just a matter of when. Not like they can do anything about it, sure they could argue anti competitive behaviour but I don't think that would truly fly in court these days given what we have seen happen in other industries. Basically they can push their own platform however they like, just like how MacOS does, and Netflix etc etc......

Alternatives exist like SteamOS and Linux, unfortunately its hard to move people off Windows. For example I'm using it atm because I have Fallout 4 / SkyrimSE / Witcher 3 on windows, can't run them on Linux (wine) at 4K@60fps...

I agree. It will happen.

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Quoting: chancho_zombie

Quoting: MohandevirIt's just a matter of time. Microsoft will GRADUALLY push Windows 10S wherever they can and when developpers will jump on board, users will get numbed enough to the UWP when they realize that they can do everything they want with the Windows 10S edition. We might even see users requiring Steam to be integrated to the UWP. At this point, it will become the defacto standard for all sold devices (desktop included). Once this is done, there will be no more upgrade paths. The argument will be something like: "Nobody uses the home edition of Windows anymore so we drop support."

Not saying it is going to happen, but I'm quite sure Microsft's strategy is not far from that. This plan started the day Microsoft released Windows 10S.

to clarify I'm in favour of Windows having it's store. But Steam games should be able to install games by itself without them being UWP, Android does that, an app may install another app. Not allowing trusted apps to install things might be an overkill.
Linux doesn't have an official store because it's a free/libre system, IOS, Mac OS, Android, have them. This isn't any surprise at all.

Understood, my point is just that the next version of Windows - now called Windows Core OS (not related to the Core OS that Red Hat just bought) - will be a massive upgrade similar to the upgrade to Windows NT 20 years ago. This will be a bigger threat than Windows 10 S - and Liam's article as a result is already dated. The threat however, is even bigger than the hyperbole in his article.

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Windows 10S is actually going away (it's just a hobbled version of Windows 10 Pro) and will be replaced by Windows 10 Core OS which is based on a unified Windows Core across platforms and systems. This should be a much improved version of Windows and it appears positioned to only allow protected apps (ie Windows Store) to run. This will likely happen over time (as did the transition from Windows to Windows NT) but as I said, it will bring benefits to users in terms of resource allocation and protection from viruses and malware. Electron apps will also be relied on to bring some back compatibility though over time developers are expected to move to UWP apps.

For Valve, this will be an even bigger issue for a few reasons, the biggest of which is that this transition makes sense for Microsoft. It's not just a hobbled version of 10 - it's a new Windows Core that provides actual benefits that users will want. Gamers might scream, but the plan will proceed. It seems to me that many of the benefits of Core OS are already available on many Linux flavors, and the push by Microsoft into electron apps (apparently there's an electron version of Microsoft Office coming) may improve Linux compatibility.

Valve *is* threatened, but I think that ultimately Microsoft will make a deal to allow third party stores like Steam as long as they follow certain Windows protocols. While I hope to see a bigger push on SteamOS, the path of least resistance likely lies through Microsoft.

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Quoting: wojtek88

Quoting: GrazenI've been buying more and more games in the Windows store already, because of PlayAnywhere. I have an Xbox One X so for some (but not all games... yet) like Mordor Shadow of War or Cuphead buying them through the Microsoft store allows me to play them on both PC and Xbox. It's starting and Valve needs to get their heads out of the sand.

I understand your attitude. It sounds nice. But I will add something to this discussion:
I buy games on Steam (or digital versions in local shops if they have better price, never through resellers) using my personal Linux machine. I play them on my personal machine. At work I used to have Windows machine. I was able to play games on that machine. Now at work I have Mac. I am still able to play those games. You need console like experience? You buy small case PC and install SteamOS (or buy Steam Machine) and you don't have to buy those games again. They just work.

What I'm saying is Valve targets more platforms than Microsoft. Microsoft started to promote their console + PC approach some time ago, and that's cool for MS users.

The other topic is number of AAA titles, quality of the ports on Linux and the quality of "console like experience" - they are not yet there, that's why 2,5 years ago I bought PS4...

Your use case makes sense, but I bet that there's more Xbox gamers than Mac / Linux only players out there. Time will tell.

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