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Latest Comments by x_wing
Here's another way to look at the Linux market share on Steam
3 December 2017 at 2:53 pm UTC

QuoteWeird part is that they are paying for software (at least for games like pubg).
This speech is 20 years old. Now there are lots of well off Chinese who can pay for their OS and games.

I know that it's quite dated, but as most of Chinese seems to be using W7 instead of 10 (being the last one a free update from the former) and that Liam thesis was that this update is not happening due that most of them use a pirate copy of W7, it's clear that they are not willing to pay the price of a Windows license. So, it's not that they don't want to pay for software, it's that they cannot afford some of the prices of Windows or don't see the point of paying a Windows license (and I really agree with them if you ask me).

Here's another way to look at the Linux market share on Steam
3 December 2017 at 3:45 am UTC

QuoteAbout 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.

Speech at the University of Washington, as reported in "Gates, Buffett a bit bearish" CNET News (2 July 1998)

Weird part is that they are paying for software (at least for games like pubg).

Feral Interactive continues to contribute to Mesa as one of its developers gets commit privileges
14 November 2017 at 1:51 pm UTC Likes: 7

And this is why I always buy Feral games. No matter if it isn't a game I really like or don't have enough time to play, with the guarantee that they enhance our platform is more than enough for me.

F1 2017 released for Linux as Feral Interactive’s first Vulkan-only title, here’s a port report
7 November 2017 at 3:23 am UTC Likes: 3

BeamboomNo, I say it is so because it is so. It is public knowledge, they do have their technology middle layer they use to translate DX to OpenGL (and now Vulkan) - even the name of that wrapper is known (I don't remember now but it should be only a quick googling away).

I think you mistake Feral work with Virtual Programming work (their middleware is neon, is that the one you mean?)

BeamboomRead the links others have provided in this very thread. This is fact. This is not assumptions. It's just how it is. How do you think they could do all these releases, and how can they be so stable as they are? Because the main game is left as it is - no core code is changed in any significant way whatsoever.

And this is important that we know when we do judge these releases, else it's just plain unfair to them and the titles we do have and will receive - all thanks to their wrapper. This is not a demonstration of Vulkan, it's a demonstration first and foremost of their middle layer software that translates for them.

I have read all the links and none of them proves that they have a generic wrapper to adapt games to Mac and Linux. In fact, I gave you an example of a game with an engine that supports Dx and Vulkan and the performance is poorer in Vulkan (The Talos Principle if you don't recall). Sorry, but unless you know someone that has access to the game code you can't prove that they're wrapping DirectX (an even if it's the case, there are software designs that doesn't give you another option).

I'll never understand why some of you guys have problems with a game that is supported on Linux with a decent performance but is "unnaceptable" that it doesn't give the same performance as in Windows. As I previously said, you save near 100 bucks with Linux as you don't have to buy a Windows license, and with that amount you can enhance more than a 30% your gpu power, so stop pointless complains about software design that has nothing to do with Linux gaming.

The big issue we have to get over in our system is the profitability. If we can manage to keep profitable, we'll eventually get the same performance as in Windows. Simple as that...

F1 2017 released for Linux as Feral Interactive’s first Vulkan-only title, here’s a port report
6 November 2017 at 11:27 am UTC

BeamboomSo "porting" is in practise about changing the platform specific parts of a code. If you compile a source code by having that code to access another api instead of system apis, that is for all practical purposes to be called a "wrapper".

We can discuss semantics until we grow grey hair, but fact remains that in gaming, the graphical part - who remains platform specific - is a major part of a games performance. MAJOR part. So adding a middle layer to translate DX calls to Vukan calls is no minor detail. It doesn't matter then if the sources are recompiled to access those libraries - this part IS wrapped. And that is in essence what this is about.

First off, by your concept of "wrapper" and "port" it will always be a grey definition. We don't know how a game is designed and how much coupled it is with original system, so all that we can discuss is a supposition game.

But let's get it simple: you assume that the games is "wrapped" due that it doesn't show a equal performance as Windows. But, why do you get that conclussion? It isn't possible that the way a game architecture focused on Dx11 is difficult to adapt to Vulkan? It isn't possible that a part of the gap is due that Nvidia hardware performs better with Dx11 than with Vulkan? You have lots of question to answer before conclude that Feral has a "wrapper" of Dx11...

F1 2017 released for Linux as Feral Interactive’s first Vulkan-only title, here’s a port report
4 November 2017 at 1:48 pm UTC

BeamboomThe whole problem here is that we call these releases "ports", when they in fact are "wrapped". Nobody expects a game run in Wine to be on par with Windows performance. We should apply that same expectation on these games.

They are not ported, the source code is not "translated" to run natively. They have had added an extra layer so that they don't NEED to be ported. This is a crucial difference.

And from THAT perspective, these releases are pretty damn impressive. They are like Wine on steroids, with a 100% smooth experience and pretty darn good performance.

They just are NOT ports.

The loss of performance doesn't mean that there is Dx to Vulkan wrapper. It just means that the game was designed for an API in mind and then they decided to add support to another (just take a look on The Talos Principle benchs).

In the moment you see an elf file as executable, you can be sure that the game was compiled to run natively. We can discuss all day about "how much wrapped the game is", but we don't have access to the source code and sometimes there is no other way to make the port out of wrapping win32 calls.

The concept of "port" or "wine-like" is meaningless without the details of the low level design.

F1 2017 released for Linux as Feral Interactive’s first Vulkan-only title, here’s a port report
4 November 2017 at 12:37 am UTC

BrisseAnd again with the apples and oranges. You can't come to any conclusions using Guru3D benchmark because they had completely different system and benchmark. Michael at Phoronix was using a significantly faster CPU for one thing. Were they even running on the same track?

We can definitely get some conclusions from Guru3D bench. If you see their setup, it's quite similar to Liam setup plus some overclock in the CPU. And if you see Liam results, you'll note as me that the performance from guru3d is lower than Liams in Windows (and Guru3d had their cpu at 4.2 Ghz!). Definitely there was some performance improvement in game/drivers since the game release.

About the track of the test, you can check that in the bench script. So yes, guru3d and phoronix test are using Australia track.

I don't think that i7 8700K@4.7 vs i7@5960X@4.2 aren't comparable, but as the former is a little more powerfull It is quite interesting to analize how CPU power affects Nvidia driver performance on Linux.

F1 2017 released for Linux as Feral Interactive’s first Vulkan-only title, here’s a port report
3 November 2017 at 7:06 pm UTC Likes: 1

Phoronix updated their test and included RADV benchs with Mesa 17.3.

As expected, fps are lower than first run, but they're still quite impressive for 1080p@Ultra. The surprise: GTX1060 & RX 580 fps gets higher FPS than Guru3d benchs on Windows. Not sure, but I think that later patches of the game improved performance so Guru3d shows the release/prereslease performance.

Sadly Phoronix didn't use GTX 980ti on the new test run, what would have give an idea of how much plays the CPU on this game comparing Liam results.

F1 2017 released for Linux as Feral Interactive’s first Vulkan-only title, here’s a port report
3 November 2017 at 11:16 am UTC Likes: 2

skinnyrafI am aware of this discussion. It's just that this up to 40% penalty in the review is much higher than expected. It's good that neither dubigrasu nor Phoronix confirm that. 10% gap is great, 15-20% is acceptable, >30% is not acceptable.

The acceptable point would be to get over 60 fps. In all the benchs we can see that when we put more quality in the game, the gap gets little, so all the result should be analized with caution.

For the complainers, if the problem is: "I need more hardware for run the game on Linux", please also remember that you get extra cash when you use Linux (you save 90usd from Windows license at minimum!).

In the current situation of the market, I feel that we cannot get fanatic and ask for equal performance. We're still getting games that were designed for Windows and then adapted for Linux. In the current situation this results are amazing.

F1 2017 released for Linux as Feral Interactive’s first Vulkan-only title, here’s a port report
3 November 2017 at 4:28 am UTC

Mountain ManAlways disappointing to see performance lag behind Windows, but that's to be expected with a port, and that won't change until developers start using cross-platform middle-ware.

Yup. I bought it on my Linux box, I might wait a few weeks to make sure it registers as a Linux sale before hitting it up on Windows. I'm a Linux enthusiast but not a masochist. Based on this my 1060 would be lucky to hit 30 fps on medium while on Windows it can run at 60fps on very high.

Well, Phoronix tests shows a frame rate over 100 with a 1060 + i7 8700k (settings Ultra@1080p). Maybe you should give it a try on Linux...

Phoronix results are quite impressive. In fact, out of the 1080Ti, Linux has better performance than a Windows compared to a bench on guru3d (,5.html). Maybe there was a performance update after guru 3d test? Or the 8700k is the key? Different test?

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