Quoting: slapinGodot is in state wanted by its developers, according to their vision. Visions change very slowly, so I guess 2-3 years is too optimistic. However even now if your C++ skills and experience are good enough you can write quite decent games using it, but prepare to code a lot first. The problem is mainly a conflict of interests between minimalist public which considers any additional feature as personal insult and feature hungry public. Currently the interests lean to minimalism even at cost of lack of functions. That is not going to change any time soon, so to have some decent FOSS engine for your 3D game one have to either compose one from existing separate libraries (OGRE, Bullet, etc.) which will take human-years to complete (including asset pipeline establishment), so requires large team efforts, or take Godot + external libraries and have something coded within months which is much less effort. All the complete solutions are not FOSS, so Godot is compromise.

I have to agree somewhat.
Love to see the engine progress, but I've often been questioning the priorities and the lack of clarity of what is going on at any current time, what the plans are for the next month/week, etc.

Is it really necessary to work on a Vulkan renderer while OpenGL+DirectX works everywhere and other features are way more incomplete than the rendering?
It's not the lack of graphical bling! that keeps people from using Godot, it is the lack of features. When asking "can Godot do this?" and the answer is no, well then most people won't pick Godot if Unity or others can do it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning what the unpaid contributors work on, they'll work on what motivates them and that's fine. But shouldn't the paid ones be more mindful of priorities?

I gave up waiting on the 3D navigation, for example, and started working on my own GDNative module to implement recast/detour properly for my needs. It won't be in a way that suits everyone (no editor integration, for example and only takes MeshInstance), but that's just what happens when people develop for their own needs.
It is a few weeks of work (spread over one day per week that I have for it) that would have been nice if I could have spent them on something else.

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Looking at how their latest game was received, that's unfortunately not very surprising.
Hope they can get back on track with their next game, though.

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Quoting: TMM

Quoting: TheSHEEEPYes, and that is nonsensical collective punishment that I do not support.
"Someone of you did something I do not agree with, unrelated to the project, so now I hate all of you, and the project, especially if that person's head doesn't roll".

I don't know who made the original comment but as a part of the Godot CoC team I can assure you that this is not policy for regular project members.

You say that now, and I do hope it is so. But we will see about that if/when the first real shitstorm hits and the
mob comes knocking, torches lighted.
It is very easy to give in to peer pressure, hoping it will make the problem go away.

Quoting: TMMSomeone who expresses, for instance, homophobic beliefs in public will however not be selected for any (semi) official Godot positions. Think of part of any Github teams, GSoC mentors etc.

That's your decision to make. It is your project.
Roles that include representing the project or team (say, a community manager) obviously couldn't be staffed with someone who expressed views many won't agree with.
But you will have to live with people not understanding how a persons views on unrelated topics affect their ability to be a GSoC mentor, for example.

Quoting: TMMIt is however not in any way a policy that someone who expresses themselves would face consequences just for that.

I am not sure how this statement fits with the last one.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyWeren't you arguing that the point was that they should be able to exercise free speech while working in the project and so, in this example, act like a misogynist?

I never said that anyone should be able to freely take the piss on other team members or users, that would be pretty damn stupid.

But as long as they keep their misogynist acting outside of the project and interactions with its users, and as long as it doesn't become extreme with calls to violence or stuff like that, there is no problem.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyIf they're restraining themselves, that's back to the code of conduct you don't like.

The code is fine, for the most part. Just too much room for abuse, especially the "in private" part, which is by now confirmed to mean "in private among the community" as I suspected all along.

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Quoting: devland

Quoting: TheSHEEEPBut whatever happens that is not (either publicly or privately) between workers/team members but between a worker and other, unrelated people (or no people at all, just someone voicing opinions), should have no consequences beyond affecting inter-personal relations at work if it becomes known.

If a member of a community has, for example, publicly voiced homophobic opinions, that will reflect poorly on the entire community.

Yes, and that is nonsensical collective punishment that I do not support.
"Someone of you did something I do not agree with, unrelated to the project, so now I hate all of you, and the project, especially if that person's head doesn't roll".
If that screeching is the best people can do, I can't wait for the next meteorite...

Plus, it is very much "guilty until proven innocent".
To begin with, what is or isn't homophobic is very much subjective. I can remember a pretty harmless soap bottle causing quite a stir...
And even if it was something really serious: Maybe that person was drunk, or maybe just in a really bad space, or, or, or... Those are not excuses, but there are a lot of reasons to give second chances and not just pre-emptively exclude everyone who might disagree on something.

Quoting: devlandAlso, LGBT members of the community would find it hard, if not impossible, to work with him afterwards.

Maybe, and that would be a reason to talk about it and see what can be done - and if nothing can be done, then termination (of the contract! geez...) might be the result. If that member is set in their ways, that will be for the best.

But you don't see people calling out for "Okay, that's not alright, let's talk about it". You instead see the screeching "Off with their heads!" Twitter mob - and even if heads do roll, that project will forever be tainted in the eyes of those, never to be forgiven.

I remember the case of a guy who was working on a game on KS. It became known that that guy was following some groups on Deviantart (or sth like that, doesn't matter). Among those a group producing some Nazi memorabilia art (anything from iron crosses to big boobed nazi anime to tanks) - and a foot fetish group, which I find way more disturbing -, he also engaged in some forum RPs playing a nazi.
You know how this story ends, right? I don't even need to finish it.

You can support that exclusive mindset - or try to be more reasonable, which thankfully the Godot devs have chosen to be, it seems.

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Quoting: KimyrielleWould I want to have a misogynist in a project I am leading? Absolutely NOT!!! Not even if their code was the best thing since sliced bread. I haul their sorry butt out of the door, period. And I find this the most natural thing on Earth, really.

If that misogynist in your project behaves just fine towards everyone in the project and the users and does a good job - what does it matter what views he holds privately?
You don't want to convince him of anything other than your power to get him offed, you don't want to understand why he thinks what he thinks, how he came to the wrong conclusions. You want to get someone fired for simply not agreeing with you on topics that are for one reason or another dear to you - and you think it to be the most natural thing on Earth.
That's really quite sad, and it is behaviour like that which drives more and more people to the extreme sides of the spectrum while not changing anyone's mind - quite the opposite, actually, it only reinforces their views and theories.

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The lead developer himself clarified some things - which all sound fine to me.
I asked if they should maybe add a tl;dr of that to the statement itself, which he said "might be a good idea".

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: TheSHEEEPGodwin's law confirmed.
I had hoped people would ignore that AH namedrop (really, don't do that, please).

Study that law again kid. I did not compare anyone to Hitler here. And as long as I abide to GoL posting rules, I can write whatever I want... funny how freedom of speech is such a volatile concept!

Dude, chill.
I'm on your side, but even if you didn't compare anyone, someone will interpret it that way and so here we go.
Just don't namedrop the guy, it never works out well and always leads to derailments like this one right here. Not worth the hassle, really. Enough other people to namedrop available ;)

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Godwin's law confirmed.
I had hoped people would ignore that AH namedrop (really, don't do that, please).

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Quoting: devland

Quoting: psyminIf someone is mean to someone else in a realm that isn't related to linux, gaming or godot, that shouldn't have any impact on their ability to contribute.

It does have an impact.

If you start calling someone names, regardless if you do it offline or online on another platform, then you can't possibly expect that the other person will be willing to continue to work with you.

That's not the point being made.
Obviously, you shouldn't keep a worker around that insults other workers.

But whatever happens that is not (either publicly or privately) between workers/team members but between a worker and other, unrelated people (or no people at all, just someone voicing opinions), should have no consequences beyond affecting inter-personal relations at work if it becomes known. And if those relations are then harmed so much that the person in question has to leave is a different question, to be decided case-by-case, not by some general checkmarked ruleset of forbidden opinions.
Stuff like that is called call-out/cancel culture and there is a reason that even people as "left" as Obama and T. Noah are not on board with it.

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