Quoting: MohandevirAnd I'm pretty fine with the concept.

I'm not saying the concept itself is useless. It's a problem when it's the only way the store offers access and there is no alternative to buy something in that store (DRM-free), which essentially makes this store totally DRMed.

Quoting: MohandevirIf I want to replay it again, I get it at Steam after that. :)

And that's the catch. You'd need to find such game in another store, and nothing guarantees it will be there. Didn't Google want to make their own studio just for Stadia? What if their games will be Stadia exclusives? Which shows that Stadia itself already has a flaw, in contrast to offering a DRM-free purchase option alongside renting one.

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Quoting: MohandevirBut Stadia doesn't rent you games. It sells a monthly access to their game library.

Which essentially means it rents you all of their games, for a month. So, renting :)

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Quoting: eldakingRenting DRM-free digital media is a silly idea because of how digital files works (copying is so intrinsic that you can't transfer it without making a copy). There is nothing to be returned after the rental, nothing stopping the person from keeping a copy forever. It makes no sense... unless you start to use DRM. Which is terrible and shouldn't be done. So, don't "rent" digital goods.

That's what my initial thought was as well, renting of digital goods is just pointless. But the reason for it can be economical. I.e. renting something is expected to be cheaper than buying. So in theory, renting digital goods can be an OK approach, when it charges less. However as you said, it quickly turns sour if renting starts enforcing limited usage through DRM (which it practically always does, in cases like Netflix, Spotify, and Stadia here as well). I.e. as long as you don't have unrestricted access to downloaded digital files (after you already authenticated and paid something naturally) it's DRMed.

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Going back go ShabbyX's question about how this could actually be implemented DRM-free. To add to the above, about services that sell and allow streaming as an option. One issue with that could be that one time fee might not be sufficient to cover expenses on perpetual streaming availability for those who bought some game. I.e. running the infrastructure can end up being more expensive than profits from one time sale.

To address that, paying a subscription fee for streaming is not a bad thing. I.e. those who want streaming can pay a monthly fee for it. It doesn't preclude being able to buy and download the actual game in the same store. This way it can remain DRM-free and offer sustainable way of providing infrastructure for streaming at any time for those who want it.

I.e. the DRM-free streaming store can offer such features:

1. You pay for the game - you get it and can download the DRM-free package.
2. If you want to be able to stream any of your purchased games, you can pay some monthly fee for the service.
3. If you want to be able to stream any of the games in the catalog without buying (i.e. just renting), you can pay somewhat more than for option #2, while avoiding paying #1.

So this will cover all use cases, and still be DRM-free.

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Quoting: EhvisSo all that's left is arguing that you don't like renting game time. Which is fair enough, but don't call it DRM.

Call it what you want, I don't call it DRM-free since it very clearly doesn't fit the definition and has all the common flaws of any other DRMed store, and it's enough for me to avoid it. So please stop the pointless demagoguery which only derails this thread.

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Quoting: hagabakaRenting a movie DRM free would mean you could download the movie, copy it to other devices to watch it, and even watch it later. It would be breaching the contract to watch it after the renting period, but there would not be a system to prevent it.

So if Stadia were DRM free, you would be able to download the game and copy it to other devices to play it, and even play it after the renting period.

Exactly my point. Let me repeat what I said above already to answer ShabbyX how such thing could be implemented DRM-free, since the answer was swallowed with all this pointless claiming that Stadia isn't DRMed:

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DRM issue here is quite obvious. Streaming idea itself of course doesn't imply renting or DRM and just means certain functionality. I.e. you can have a DRM-free store with streaming... as long as the game is provided for download alongside the streaming option. Unfortunately Stadia doesn't have such choice. So imagine a DRM obsessed publisher, which will figure, that releasing only on Stadia is a neat way to ensure that game can't ever be redistributed. That's like DRM on steroids basically.

Taking streaming and DRM-free examples from other media, consider Bandcamp. It sells DRM-free music, and it as well allows you to stream it as a convenience. In contrast stores like Spotify are DRMed, since they don't offer downloads and you can only rent, not buy music there.

Same thing here, what stops Stadia from selling (rather than renting) games, allowing both downloads and streaming for purchased games? That would make it DRM-free. As it stands now, it's DRMed, since it's a renting service.

TL;DR: equating streaming with renting is wrong, it's an artificial, not a natural combination. You can have a DRM-free store that sells digital products and also uses streaming along with it as a convenience feature.

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Quoting: EhvisI'm going to buy some bread at the supermarket. When I finished it, I can't use it anymore. It's not DRM free!

What, the store enforcers run after you and grab your bought bread away on a whim? Or the bread has a self destruct trigger attached that can be activated by the store? What kind of bread do you buy??

Hint: be careful with analogies from physical merchandise to digital goods. They are not always matching one to one. But if you are using one, at least find something close enough.

I see no point in arguing about definition of DRM. Please don't waste time in this thread on it.

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Quoting: EhvisThere is no store. You're paying for time on service that allows you to use something that you can't use in any other place. Everything you said so far is irrelevant.

I don't care if you call it a store or a "renting service". You yourself said "there is nothing to buy". Being able to buy is part of definition of being DRM-free. So it doesn't fit the definition of being DRM-free, that's it and your claim that it's not DRMed is simply false.

And let's wait for ShabbyX to answer my points, since he was asking "how else streaming could be done to actually be DRM-free", which I answered above.

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Quoting: EhvisI know you're a DRM free advocate, but that's just nonsense in this context. There is nothing to buy, so this definition does not apply.

There is nothing to buy, so it doesn't fit the definition of being DRM-free, ergo it's a DRMed digital store. Not sure what's hard to understand here. Commonly, renting digital stores are DRMed because of the above.

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Quoting: EhvisAs I wrote above, Stadia is by its very design DRM free.

It's by design super DRMed, since it's a renting service that doesn't allow you to buy a game, have a backup and use it without relying on any store and such in the future to play it.

The definition of DRM-free is roughly "buy and don't have any restrictions placed on the purchase after you bought it". Stadia clearly doesn't fit it. For instance you won't be able to play anything there if your account is closed or Stadia itself closes down. Same issue affects all DRMed services which have a perpetual requirement of connecting to their backend to use digital goods they are offering.

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