Quoting: SamsaiI feel like you don't know what Feral's wrapper even does

I know what it does. It's source level wrapper. That doesn't make it a native approach, it's still a wrapper.

Quoting: SamsaiSo if you want to say that Feral's ports don't support Linux any more than Wine.

Not for me, if I can't even play them. You are comfortable with Feral's exclusivity approach, that's why you don't get it.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: EikeWe already had this discussion and I see no value in repeating it: Feral's games are compiled as native Linux binaries.

Indeed, let's not repeat it. I don't see Feral's releases as native, so let's move on to other topics.

Quoting: EikeIf you want fully native Linux games (in your undestanding of "native" ), you shouldn't use WINE either.

I never said I'm against wrappers. I was only commenting on the inconsistent claim, that Feral are encouraging native ports and Wine discourages them.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: EikeI disagree, because one is paying for a game sold for Windows (and is strenghtening Windows market) and the other is paying for a game sold for Linux

One is playing a game sold for Windows, and other is not playing the game that Feral didn't port. That's the options. So for me the first is clearly better, since the second would be 100% of games that are available in DRM-free stores.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: jensFeral shows that money can be earned when targeting Linux.

So do many developers who sell Linux games. Feral isn't the only one who can show it. So the claim that there should not be competition in that field is unreasonable.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: jensI will quote myself:
".. every game bought for wine-gaming is still a windows sell and will only strengthen windows as gaming platform."

With our insignificant market share we should combine forces and not encourage competition. Lets do that again once we have reached 20% market share. Wine should focus itself on applications and older games. Leave the market of newer titles to Feral and friends so that they properly count as Linux sell.

Lock into platforms is what publishers are obsessed with. Tools like Wine break platform walls to begin with, that's why it doens't sit well with publisher mindset.

But that's not even the main practical problem here. The main one is above - Feral wrapper is too limited (by nature of being closed and controlled by them). So no, I have no interest in leaving the market to them, especially when they have no interest in addressing my market to begin with. I'm yet to see even a single Feral game released DRM-free.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: EikeThought from the other end, would you be happy being able to play all Windows games via WINE (and probably not getting any support by companies) and having no more games compiled to target Linux?

I personally will be more happy to have native games naturally. But playing them through Wine is better for me than "playing" through Feral's wrapper that I can't even access in my store at all (which means not playing at all).

Besides, Feral wrappers don't encourage native releases unlike some claim above. Actual support for Linux in game engines does, that's what we get from Unreal, Unity and the like who actually make native option available.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: jensI wouldn't underestimate the value Feral and friends currently have for Linux. Gaming on linux/Linux for Desktop will go back straight to the middle ages if the few AAA publishers we have decide to leave Linux and focus on Mac/iOS only.

If there is a distinct value, then competition isn't a problem, right? And if you worry that they'll be obsoleted by Wine, then Wine can provide that value all the same. So from Linux gaming perspective why is it bad? Competition usually moves things forward, and its lack causes stagnation.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: jensFeral gets paid for their efforts and deliver outstanding quality and support in turn. With wine it is always a gamble

No one stops developers from investing in Wine if they want to use it as a wrapper. Relationship doesn't need to be set up as "you need me as a middleman". It can be "I chose to you use your technology, so I'm going to contribute back to it".

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: jensLets say wine would aim for perfect support for Rise of the Tomb Raider. Lots of people would then buy the windows version and that in turn would mean a financial disaster for Feral once they release their version.

So, Feral can find other form of activity rather than selling a closed wrapper. That's what competition does. CodeWeavers found a way to make money on their FOSS project. I don't see a need to say don't make FOSS projects because it threatens closed ones. That's not how things work, by this logic Linux itself shouldn't have been made.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: ScooptaYes but wine isn't a port. Feral might be doing some wrapping but they're not wrapping the entire binary. I'll take ports over wrappers any day even if the port has wrapper libraries.

I disagree with saying that Feral's wrapper has no effect on native gaming. It has. It reduces incentives to make native ports. It doesn't mean it's a bad thing, since wrapped release is better than no functioning option at all. But then your claim that binary wrapper somehow discourages native ports more doesn't make sense to me. It's IMHO completely irrelevant what kind of wrapping takes place if you are analyzing it as alternative to native port. It's all a shortcut that allows playing something without spending a lot on native rewrite. The only difference is that Wine allows it for anything, and Feral allow it for what they selected only.

So this whole argument is about marketing only (i.e. "viewed as Linux release" ), not about actual effect on native releases. Nothing stops developers doing what Topware did, and use Wine for marketed "official" Linux release.

This whole topic started as an answer to "Wine discourages native ports, while Feral are encouraging them". I don't see that difference. If anything, both provide non native options in different fashions, and one being a closed controlled by Feral product, while other is FOSS and can be used by anyone.

View this comment - View article - View full comments