Quoting: jensIt makes me sad to read that your own personal choice to avoid Steam doesn't let you see the value Feral and friends are doing for Linux gaming plus Linux adoption and that you are even prefer to compromise their efforts :(

I didn't say there is no value. I said I don't agree that it's wrong to have competition. I quite strongly disagree with that especially in case when their option is exclusive. Competition makes it accessible, rather than walled.

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Quoting: SamsaiEven you are benefiting from them because they are pushing our graphics stack forward. You just refuse to acknowledge this because you are mad that their games are not on GOG.

I never refused to acknowledge that. More than Feral about Valve for instance. I don't use them, but I well acknowledge their contribution to the Linux stack. Does it mean there should be no competition to any of them in the Linux gaming market? Of course not.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: ShmerlOne is playing a game sold for Windows, and other is not playing the game that Feral didn't port. That's the options. So for me the first is clearly better, since the second would be 100% of games that are available in DRM-free stores.

Erm, did I understand that right that you're buying DRM'ed games for Windows (to play them under WINE), but not for Linux?

No, it means I'm buying DRM-free only games, which means no Feral games are available for me. Insistence on DRM is the outcome of Feral's control over their wrapper. Wine has no such thing, so it's perfectly usable with DRM-free games.

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Quoting: SamsaiI feel like you don't know what Feral's wrapper even does

I know what it does. It's source level wrapper. That doesn't make it a native approach, it's still a wrapper.

Quoting: SamsaiSo if you want to say that Feral's ports don't support Linux any more than Wine.

Not for me, if I can't even play them. You are comfortable with Feral's exclusivity approach, that's why you don't get it.

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Quoting: EikeWe already had this discussion and I see no value in repeating it: Feral's games are compiled as native Linux binaries.

Indeed, let's not repeat it. I don't see Feral's releases as native, so let's move on to other topics.

Quoting: EikeIf you want fully native Linux games (in your undestanding of "native" ), you shouldn't use WINE either.

I never said I'm against wrappers. I was only commenting on the inconsistent claim, that Feral are encouraging native ports and Wine discourages them.

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Quoting: EikeI disagree, because one is paying for a game sold for Windows (and is strenghtening Windows market) and the other is paying for a game sold for Linux

One is playing a game sold for Windows, and other is not playing the game that Feral didn't port. That's the options. So for me the first is clearly better, since the second would be 100% of games that are available in DRM-free stores.

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Quoting: jensFeral shows that money can be earned when targeting Linux.

So do many developers who sell Linux games. Feral isn't the only one who can show it. So the claim that there should not be competition in that field is unreasonable.

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Quoting: jensI will quote myself:
".. every game bought for wine-gaming is still a windows sell and will only strengthen windows as gaming platform."

With our insignificant market share we should combine forces and not encourage competition. Lets do that again once we have reached 20% market share. Wine should focus itself on applications and older games. Leave the market of newer titles to Feral and friends so that they properly count as Linux sell.

Lock into platforms is what publishers are obsessed with. Tools like Wine break platform walls to begin with, that's why it doens't sit well with publisher mindset.

But that's not even the main practical problem here. The main one is above - Feral wrapper is too limited (by nature of being closed and controlled by them). So no, I have no interest in leaving the market to them, especially when they have no interest in addressing my market to begin with. I'm yet to see even a single Feral game released DRM-free.

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Quoting: EikeThought from the other end, would you be happy being able to play all Windows games via WINE (and probably not getting any support by companies) and having no more games compiled to target Linux?

I personally will be more happy to have native games naturally. But playing them through Wine is better for me than "playing" through Feral's wrapper that I can't even access in my store at all (which means not playing at all).

Besides, Feral wrappers don't encourage native releases unlike some claim above. Actual support for Linux in game engines does, that's what we get from Unreal, Unity and the like who actually make native option available.

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Quoting: jensI wouldn't underestimate the value Feral and friends currently have for Linux. Gaming on linux/Linux for Desktop will go back straight to the middle ages if the few AAA publishers we have decide to leave Linux and focus on Mac/iOS only.

If there is a distinct value, then competition isn't a problem, right? And if you worry that they'll be obsoleted by Wine, then Wine can provide that value all the same. So from Linux gaming perspective why is it bad? Competition usually moves things forward, and its lack causes stagnation.

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