Quoting: jensFeral gets paid for their efforts and deliver outstanding quality and support in turn. With wine it is always a gamble

No one stops developers from investing in Wine if they want to use it as a wrapper. Relationship doesn't need to be set up as "you need me as a middleman". It can be "I chose to you use your technology, so I'm going to contribute back to it".

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Quoting: jensLets say wine would aim for perfect support for Rise of the Tomb Raider. Lots of people would then buy the windows version and that in turn would mean a financial disaster for Feral once they release their version.

So, Feral can find other form of activity rather than selling a closed wrapper. That's what competition does. CodeWeavers found a way to make money on their FOSS project. I don't see a need to say don't make FOSS projects because it threatens closed ones. That's not how things work, by this logic Linux itself shouldn't have been made.

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Quoting: ScooptaYes but wine isn't a port. Feral might be doing some wrapping but they're not wrapping the entire binary. I'll take ports over wrappers any day even if the port has wrapper libraries.

I disagree with saying that Feral's wrapper has no effect on native gaming. It has. It reduces incentives to make native ports. It doesn't mean it's a bad thing, since wrapped release is better than no functioning option at all. But then your claim that binary wrapper somehow discourages native ports more doesn't make sense to me. It's IMHO completely irrelevant what kind of wrapping takes place if you are analyzing it as alternative to native port. It's all a shortcut that allows playing something without spending a lot on native rewrite. The only difference is that Wine allows it for anything, and Feral allow it for what they selected only.

So this whole argument is about marketing only (i.e. "viewed as Linux release" ), not about actual effect on native releases. Nothing stops developers doing what Topware did [External Link], and use Wine for marketed "official" Linux release.

This whole topic started as an answer to "Wine discourages native ports, while Feral are encouraging them". I don't see that difference. If anything, both provide non native options in different fashions, and one being a closed controlled by Feral product, while other is FOSS and can be used by anyone.

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Quoting: ElectricPrismIt's the principle behind my point that you missed. The principle is that developers and publishers who do Linux versions should get as much profit as we can give them if we want to show that we are a worthy pursuit.

But they aren't making Linux versions. Feral wraps it for them. That's not native Linux gaming any more than using Wine is. And as above since Feral make it, they tell you with what and where to use their wrapper. Wine developers don't tell you that, you can use it with anything you want. In this sense I see Feral's option as clearly worse one, since it limits you. And since I can't even give Feral any profit (they avoid releasing DRM-free games), it's all becoming completely theoretical, unlike Wine which I can use here and now.

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Quoting: ElectricPrism

Quoting: ShmerlWhat's the problem with strong FOSS competition?

In this case it reduces incentive for companies to natively support Linux.

Pumping as much cash into Linux supporting companies as possible is a big goal for Linux Gamers as cash is king.

I wouldn't argue with that, i.e. the fact that wrappers can have a chilling effect on making native ports. But that applies to all wrappers. By this logic you should see a problem with Feral too, since companies that use Feral's work cut costs and avoid proper native ports, using a wrapper instead. It's just cheaper for them. And on the other hand, if you are OK with some wrappers already, then you should be OK with all of them.

And see above, about what practical benefits Wine has in contrast with closed wrappers. Also, we as Linux users should support FOSS more, at least I'd expect that.

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Quoting: ScooptaBecause I don't think companies should rely on wine for their games and if wine gets that good that might start happening.

I agree with you that companies should strive to do proper native ports. But relying on Feral's wrappers for them isn't any better than relying on Wine, if native aspect is concerned.

In fact, Wine has advantages that closed wrappers don't. It gives you more freedom. Not only it's FOSS with available code that you can modify and run as you like, it's not tied to any distributor and can be used with any game you want. Compare it to Feral's wrappers that are available on Steam only and only for a few titles selected by Feral. I.e. personally I don't benefit form Feral's wrappers at all, since I'm not using Steam, while I can easily use Wine with GOG and other DRM-free games.

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Quoting: jensI don't think that wine will ever reach the level where wine gaming comes close to the quality of Feral like ports.
(And I sincere hope that I'm right about this, otherwise the Linux community would shoot themselves pretty badly into their own feet when wine aims to compete with Feral etc and takes paying costumers away from them.)

I think you are wrong. I see no reason why Wine can't reach same quality, even though it could take longer time since Wine needs to support general Windows compatibility, while Feral can take shortcuts for each title.

Especially with projects like vkd3d for DX12 and dxvk for DX11, Wine eventually will be strongly competitive with Feral ports. And what's the problem with strong FOSS competition?

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Quoting: KimyrielleNo matter how many devs they throw at it: On the NVidia end, people always will have to use the proprietary drivers, unless some sanity returns to NVidia management (which is highly unlikely), no?

Solution is quite easy and likely will be a common choice for many Linux gamers going forward. Ditch Nvidia and use AMD. It's a shame of course that Nvidia are being jerks when it comes to proper Linux support, but it's not our problem anymore.

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Why does Logitech use PlayStation logo?

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UWP junk also prevents applications from using Vulkan even on Windows.

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