Quoting: Zlopez

Quoting: kuhpunktYes, it doesn't matter what gender etc. you are - but for many people it still matters. Way too many. How do you not get that?

So to fight against this injustice you start creating movements and organizations that are only for some people based on the color, gender, sexual orientation to make the difference even greater?

Dude, are you trying to be dense? It's NOT only for some people. It's to shine light on them.

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Quoting: Zlopez

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: Zlopez

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: ZlopezIt's nice when everybody is talking about diversity and equality and the pride month is only for LGBTQIA+. I just find this funny :-D

What's funny about this? This isn't only for LGBT...

So if I am white heterosexual I can celebrate the pride month?

What's next? All Lives Matter?

My favourite movement is: "Be kind to each other"

It doesn't matter what gender you have, what is your religion or what color you are

Yes, it doesn't matter what gender etc. you are - but for many people it still matters. Way too many. How do you not get that?

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Quoting: Zlopez

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: ZlopezSo if I am white heterosexual I can celebrate the pride month?

Why wouldn't you?

Because I didn't saw anyone in the LGBT... happy, if I say I'm proud white heterosexual. For them I'm racist embracing the culture of enslavers, or at least this is what I see in most media today. People being banned or have to resign from organizations if they take this stance.

But I don't need any special month to be proud about myself. For me it's funny that somebody even needs this :-)

It's not funny. It's about acceptance. LGBT people are shunned, attacked and insulted on a constant basis for just being what they are. That should stop.

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Quoting: Zlopez

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: ZlopezIt's nice when everybody is talking about diversity and equality and the pride month is only for LGBTQIA+. I just find this funny :-D

What's funny about this? This isn't only for LGBT...

So if I am white heterosexual I can celebrate the pride month?

What's next? All Lives Matter?

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Quoting: ZlopezIt's nice when everybody is talking about diversity and equality and the pride month is only for LGBTQIA+. I just find this funny :-D

What's funny about this? This isn't only for LGBT...

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Quoting: CyrilI was thinking of buying it, it was on my wishlist since the GOG release, and then I thought the game would be on sale on the GOG Summer sale, but no....

If you've got Humble Monthly... you get it for $1.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEPOf course it is, while you are growing. Just look at Spotify, etc. I'm not even sure they make a profit at this point, but they sure as hell didn't initially.

If there's no profit, it's hard to innovate.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPWhich is irrelevant as Epic forwards those fees to the users, encouraging them not to use services with absurdly large transfer fees.
https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/epic-games-store-faq?lang=en-US [External Link]

It's not irrelevant.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPMakes what less hypocritical?
Saying that Steam's cut is way larger than it needs to be? Nothing hypocritical about it, that's just the truth.
Pointing at others doing the same (or worse) is whataboutism and adds no valid points to any discussion.

It's not whataboutism when it's the same exact issue. The head of Ubisoft complained that Valve's cut isn't "modern enough" or whatever he said, while he still pays the same cut to other companies. That's hypocritical.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPNothing bad about it, I'm just saying that it is better for developers if that cut was lower and that the cut can absolutely be lowered while storefronts would still make a profit.

Yeah and I asked you if you have the numbers - you don't. You suggested 10-20, without knowing whether it would cover costs.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPBecause they have nothing to do with anything discussed here. It's just another way for Sony, etc. to make more money to allow them to heavily subsidize their consoles to sell them at a lower price than what would otherwise make sense.

Oh, it's now just another way to make money... got it.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPAnd moderation makes a lot of difference, especially strong moderation. There used to be a time when you'd actually notice an interesting new release on Steam. Now there are so many of them that you'd basically have to go through the list every day. Who wants to do that?
On GOG and EGS, there are way fewer new releases per day (sometimes, there might not even be one in a day!), so those do get noticed simply by the fact that they got released.

You think devs will say the same thing about Epic in 10 years?

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: GuestPersonally i think 30% is perfectly fine for AAA devs. I however think that Steam [and other Stores] could lower that Cut for Indie devs.

Funny enough, it is actually the other way around.

Edit:
There's this, which strongly favors AAA to begin with, I just remembered it as AAA devs getting a better cut to begin with (not that the end result is that much different):
https://www.pcgamer.com/valves-new-revenue-sharing-favours-big-budget-games-and-indie-devs-arent-happy/ [External Link]

Now you're just outright lying.

Being AAA has nothing to do with it. It just needs to sell well.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEPI've seen that argument a few times, and frankly, it is a myth.
Ever since Valve opened the floodgates and accepted every piece of garbage game on their platform without any moderation whatsoever, the number of games coming out is so huge that a developer gains pretty much nothing from the fact that they are on Steam. This is especially true for indie developers.
Valve doesn't "present" a damn thing, users have to actively wade through the masses of unmoderated games.

Tell how awesome being on Steam alone is to all the developers who didn't do their due diligence, didn't do any marketing, and as a result barely sell anything on Steam.
And if you have to do the marketing routine anyway, what exactly is so great about being "presented" on Steam, again?

What does that have to do with anything? There is too much of everything. Moderation doesn't change that. You won't notice the trash anyway, but do you complain about spotify and bandcamp, too? Everybody can upload their stuff there. There's a billion musicians. Not all of them can break through.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEPYes, I do. Because I actually work in the same field (not exactly gaming storefront, but hosting and payments costs are hosting and payment costs, no matter what exactly the servers do and which goods are sold) and know the costs. What exactly was your qualification here, other than "I saw it on TV"?

I saw devs say it.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPNot a huge profit margin, mind you, it might be only covering their expenses. And I do expect them to raise it somewhat, as I wrote above.

And covering your expenses is good enough?

Quoting: TheSHEEEPYes, they are. Because of their exclusivity deals. Not because of their cut.
Also, I said 10-20%, don't put words in my mouth just to try to make a point.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, but when transfer fees can be up to 15%, it's not covering costs. Sweeney himself once said it's not sustainable in certain areas. And they lose money with their sales, too.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPYou don't see anyone complain because complaining could make you enemies you don't want to have. Also, it would be entirely pointless. What are devs gonna do, not publish on PS4 because they don't like the cut?

And that makes it less hypocritical?

Quoting: TheSHEEEPDo you honestly think 30% would have become the standard if there wasn't a fat profit margin in it?
Capitalism, baby!

I'm not sure who started with the 30%, but once upon a time it was a dream for developers/publishers to get 70%. And what's so bad about them making profit? I don't think it's exploitative.

Also you didn't address the monthly fees for XBOX Live etc. that you don't have on PC.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: kuhpunktAnd how low should they go?

10-20% is fair, with a higher cut as developers can opt in to additional services (forum, matchmaking, etc.) with 20-30% being the cut for all services used.

The problem is that at the basic level (which is what most developers actually use), they really just host their game and offer the community service with it - but they don't really have any work with it that would justify the high share for developers.

How do you know that 10%-20% is fair? Do you have the numbers? gog uses 20% to pay the bills to run the service and the other 10% as actual profit.

I have been working on the backend side of many web services for many years. I know about the cost of hosting huge amounts of data with loads of traffic, web and application development pretty well.
You can roughly extrapolate what income Valve gets from what little data they give us (which is certainly not nearly all the data or income they make, which non-publicly-traded company does that, right?) combined with some average gamer spendings per time period. And if Valve aren't running an entire country, there simply isn't a way they really need that 30% share.

The 10-15% Epic takes (forgot the exact number) is much closer to the real cost of a service (+ profit) and I don't see Epic ever raising that cut to more than 20%. Except if there suddenly was a giant increase in hosting cost.

GOG can claim those numbers (do they, actually?). I don't believe it one bit, as I just know a bit more about the backend side of things and its cost.

Epic at the moment takes 12%. Do you honestly think they make profit with that, when the payment methods alone can cost more? And you think 10% is fair... Epic is losing money to get into the market. 30% is the standard everywhere and I have yet to see developers complain about MS, Sony, Nintendo, Apple etc. - and I don't think they offer as much as Valve does - and when they do, they charge for their service.

And yes, gog said that. I saw a documentary about them.

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