The Witcher 3 is something Linux users have been practically begging to have, but the problem is that it seems it will likely never come to Linux. An ex-Virtual Programming developer has taken to reddit explaining why this may have happened.
I should stress, for our own record here that this is not the official word from Virtual Programming or CD Projekt RED. This is the personal opinion of an ex-VP developer.
Here's the issue: The Linux version of The Witcher 2 was released in a poor state, it had poor performance and just didn't really work well at all. It was later fixed-up and last time I tried it, the performance was absolutely fine for me. The real problem, is the amount of hate that was sent towards the porters Virtual Programming and directly to CD Projekt RED as well. Even I personally saw some of the hate that was sent their way and it was downright idiotic and absolutely uncalled for.
I will absolutely hold my hands up as well, I made mistakes around it since I simply didn't know enough at the time, and to be honest three years ago I was still learning a lot about everything. I later corrected what I said, as I always aim to.
Writing on reddit, this developer said (source):
It seems we may have also seen a port of The Witcher 1 as well, as the developer also said (source):
There's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
This is sad, really sad. I hope this makes a few people reconsider their attitude when talking to developer about the performance of ports. Performance can be worked on and fixed, burnt bridges are harder (and sometimes impossible) to fix.
This reminds me of the time the Blizzard President responded to a small petition asking for Linux ports of their games. The response to the petition was really nice to see from such a big company and truthfully the response I fully expected, but the original statement in reply to it from the petition author (now deleted by the author, but captured in my article) was downright childish and idiotic.
Yes problems are annoying, but throwing insults around helps no one and yes it does make us look bad. I get where people are coming from, to an extent, since some games do end up getting left in a terribly broken state for a long time and sometimes forever. However, in this case VP did good and continued working and now, as stated previously, The Witcher 2 seems fine. Their others ports are generally pretty decent too.
I just hope in future that this developer who got a massive amount of hate and CD Projekt RED can look past it somehow, for all the fans of their franchise on Linux.
Note: I personally spoke to this developer about publishing this with their approval, in the hopes that it might get a few people to re-think their initial attitude towards problems in games. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
I should stress, for our own record here that this is not the official word from Virtual Programming or CD Projekt RED. This is the personal opinion of an ex-VP developer.
Here's the issue: The Linux version of The Witcher 2 was released in a poor state, it had poor performance and just didn't really work well at all. It was later fixed-up and last time I tried it, the performance was absolutely fine for me. The real problem, is the amount of hate that was sent towards the porters Virtual Programming and directly to CD Projekt RED as well. Even I personally saw some of the hate that was sent their way and it was downright idiotic and absolutely uncalled for.
I will absolutely hold my hands up as well, I made mistakes around it since I simply didn't know enough at the time, and to be honest three years ago I was still learning a lot about everything. I later corrected what I said, as I always aim to.
Writing on reddit, this developer said (source):
QuoteI agree, things were not right on release... but the vocality of people went way beyond that. It was an all out hate campaign against VP, against CDPR for "lying about the port being native". I attempted to help people out in my own time and got absolutely roasted and abused for it.
The community needs to realise it simply cannot justify this sort of behaviour if they want to convince devs and publishers to support them. There is no excuse.
It seems we may have also seen a port of The Witcher 1 as well, as the developer also said (source):
QuoteThe vitriol was unbelievable. Yes we messed up the performance on release but we put it right. However a huge hate campaign ensued. Both VP and CDPR got lots of vengeful hate mail sent to them. I cannot help but feel this damaged CDPR's view of the Linux platform irrevocably.
They certainly didnt blame us, because they had us work on a Mac port of Witcher 1 to replace the non-functioning Wineskin version. The same port would have ran on Linux too with very little extra work, but they were not interested in releasing it.
There's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
This is sad, really sad. I hope this makes a few people reconsider their attitude when talking to developer about the performance of ports. Performance can be worked on and fixed, burnt bridges are harder (and sometimes impossible) to fix.
This reminds me of the time the Blizzard President responded to a small petition asking for Linux ports of their games. The response to the petition was really nice to see from such a big company and truthfully the response I fully expected, but the original statement in reply to it from the petition author (now deleted by the author, but captured in my article) was downright childish and idiotic.
Yes problems are annoying, but throwing insults around helps no one and yes it does make us look bad. I get where people are coming from, to an extent, since some games do end up getting left in a terribly broken state for a long time and sometimes forever. However, in this case VP did good and continued working and now, as stated previously, The Witcher 2 seems fine. Their others ports are generally pretty decent too.
I just hope in future that this developer who got a massive amount of hate and CD Projekt RED can look past it somehow, for all the fans of their franchise on Linux.
Note: I personally spoke to this developer about publishing this with their approval, in the hopes that it might get a few people to re-think their initial attitude towards problems in games. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The comments on this article are closed.
Mohandevir Sep 8, 2017
Yep!
I was forced, by my 11 years old daughter, to listen to Taylor Swift music...
"...Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play
And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate
Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
I shake it off, I shake it off..."
CDPR this is for you.
ROFL!
N.B. I'm not cautionning at all all the hate that was sent to CDPR and probably VP. Nothing justifies a lack of good-manners.
I was forced, by my 11 years old daughter, to listen to Taylor Swift music...
"...Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play
And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate
Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
I shake it off, I shake it off..."
CDPR this is for you.
ROFL!
N.B. I'm not cautionning at all all the hate that was sent to CDPR and probably VP. Nothing justifies a lack of good-manners.
1 Likes, Who?
slaapliedje Sep 8, 2017
Sure bro... your 11 year old daughter... admit you're a fan!
1 Likes, Who?
Mohandevir Sep 8, 2017
Quoting: slaapliedjeSure bro... your 11 year old daughter... admit you're a fan!
A fan is a little too much but I'm not going to say that I hated it. ;)
Still, not in my usual peferences.
0 Likes
I was just browsing around for news on gaming & especially Witcher 3 (which I played when I had Windows, that I eventually gave up on), and was led here. I know this is a bit old of a post but felt the need to add in my two cents. In this case, I'm going to look at it from both the personal and corporate "shades" of the developer. They are business owners or work for a business, and running one has its demands. So, here goes:
First and foremost, everything in the world and I mean everything, is relations. If you want to get something done, you need to know how and when to apply a specific method and strategy. In the case of Linux, for a lot of developers, it's a "romantic" relationship. Hence it relies heavily on the personal/gratitude factor. Why? Simple realism. We, as Linux users, are nothing compared to the overall market share. End of story. We don't have the numbers to squeak and scream like Windows users do most of the time. Developers see they have over 90% of the desktop/laptop systems in the world and they have to comply, even if they hate it. They need the income to survive.
For many, Linux is first and foremost an idea, a community that comes together to achieve something better. That's how a lot of people I met see it as. Some of them maneuver around their corporate structure to convince the higher-ups to make things happen for it. However, if we, as Linux users, resort to petty insults and attacks... there goes that bridge.
On the more ruthless business aspect, losing a -registered- 1% of a potential user base means nothing. So, to the people that send out flame/hate emails... know the group you're in. It's simple mathematics. With greater numbers, we get more political clout. Where we are, in the desktop/laptop market, we got nothing. This kind of behavior does undermine the work a lot of distro groups attempt: to bring in more people into Linux. Even I try to bring more people in because I believe in the principles of the platform. Witcher 3 sold 25 million copies. The 15,000 signatures on the GOG for a Linux port is a drop in the ocean.
In any case...
It benefits us much more to go in with supportive criticism and patience to build our user base as a platform than stand at the top of our mountain and shoot poison. At the wrong people. The developers themselves answer to financiers, to shareholders, to distributors/publishers and who knows who else. Those are the ones who directly and indirectly enforce policies.
Also, if a dev loses time with being attacked for trying to support a smaller community, they'll give it up altogether. No, it's not unprofessional on their part. Many of them just try to help, because of a variety of reasons. Bad products are rarely their responsibility. The tough deadlines are not placed by the graphic artists or the coders or even the team leaders. Unfinished products are pushed forward by banks and executives. Those are not the ones who receive the hate emails. It's the smaller people, the very ones who can influence the decision makers by saying "hey, we completed our financial goals for this year, how about we port this to another platform or two and have a better distribution agreement with some extra cash that may bring us some bonuses?" Or something along those lines. They speak the language of the greedy people to get something different/better done. That's how they get the green light to port something. It's not just the gaming industry. I know it happens on a heck of a lot more.
That's the essence of business. That's how we made our world today. Money. As Linux users, we currently don't have the numbers to play the entitlement bravado. A lot of distro makers know that, and so does a decent part (that I know of) of our community.
Linux needs to be supported more. Back-lashing and pushing back will have that exact result: pushing back. It all comes down to what we want. As for the complainers/victims/very-special-snowflakes, I wish them a healthy return to Windows and a long-lasting, loving relationship with EA. For those who know a bit about how the gaming industry works. :)
I remember an old saying:
"In the 80s, gamers compromised, in the 2000's, they demand"
We might consider adding:
"In the 2010s, they cut your head off if they lose 1fps!"
By the way, the "20% slower" is an OpenGL comparison to DirectX. Don't get me started on AMD's proprietary OpenGL speed deficiencies on their latest cards.
Be well. Peace.
An Arch user.
First and foremost, everything in the world and I mean everything, is relations. If you want to get something done, you need to know how and when to apply a specific method and strategy. In the case of Linux, for a lot of developers, it's a "romantic" relationship. Hence it relies heavily on the personal/gratitude factor. Why? Simple realism. We, as Linux users, are nothing compared to the overall market share. End of story. We don't have the numbers to squeak and scream like Windows users do most of the time. Developers see they have over 90% of the desktop/laptop systems in the world and they have to comply, even if they hate it. They need the income to survive.
For many, Linux is first and foremost an idea, a community that comes together to achieve something better. That's how a lot of people I met see it as. Some of them maneuver around their corporate structure to convince the higher-ups to make things happen for it. However, if we, as Linux users, resort to petty insults and attacks... there goes that bridge.
On the more ruthless business aspect, losing a -registered- 1% of a potential user base means nothing. So, to the people that send out flame/hate emails... know the group you're in. It's simple mathematics. With greater numbers, we get more political clout. Where we are, in the desktop/laptop market, we got nothing. This kind of behavior does undermine the work a lot of distro groups attempt: to bring in more people into Linux. Even I try to bring more people in because I believe in the principles of the platform. Witcher 3 sold 25 million copies. The 15,000 signatures on the GOG for a Linux port is a drop in the ocean.
In any case...
It benefits us much more to go in with supportive criticism and patience to build our user base as a platform than stand at the top of our mountain and shoot poison. At the wrong people. The developers themselves answer to financiers, to shareholders, to distributors/publishers and who knows who else. Those are the ones who directly and indirectly enforce policies.
Also, if a dev loses time with being attacked for trying to support a smaller community, they'll give it up altogether. No, it's not unprofessional on their part. Many of them just try to help, because of a variety of reasons. Bad products are rarely their responsibility. The tough deadlines are not placed by the graphic artists or the coders or even the team leaders. Unfinished products are pushed forward by banks and executives. Those are not the ones who receive the hate emails. It's the smaller people, the very ones who can influence the decision makers by saying "hey, we completed our financial goals for this year, how about we port this to another platform or two and have a better distribution agreement with some extra cash that may bring us some bonuses?" Or something along those lines. They speak the language of the greedy people to get something different/better done. That's how they get the green light to port something. It's not just the gaming industry. I know it happens on a heck of a lot more.
That's the essence of business. That's how we made our world today. Money. As Linux users, we currently don't have the numbers to play the entitlement bravado. A lot of distro makers know that, and so does a decent part (that I know of) of our community.
Linux needs to be supported more. Back-lashing and pushing back will have that exact result: pushing back. It all comes down to what we want. As for the complainers/victims/very-special-snowflakes, I wish them a healthy return to Windows and a long-lasting, loving relationship with EA. For those who know a bit about how the gaming industry works. :)
I remember an old saying:
"In the 80s, gamers compromised, in the 2000's, they demand"
We might consider adding:
"In the 2010s, they cut your head off if they lose 1fps!"
By the way, the "20% slower" is an OpenGL comparison to DirectX. Don't get me started on AMD's proprietary OpenGL speed deficiencies on their latest cards.
Be well. Peace.
An Arch user.
4 Likes, Who?
lucifertdark Apr 5, 2018
WE are potential customers, WE are willing to give them money for their work, even now. 15,000 signatures is 15,000 guaranteed customers, how many more people are out there who didn't sign the petition?
I don't care who said what or who did what to who, I want that game on Linux, I bought Witcher 1 & 2, but Witcher 3 is never going to be bought by me UNLESS it comes to Linux first.
I don't care who said what or who did what to who, I want that game on Linux, I bought Witcher 1 & 2, but Witcher 3 is never going to be bought by me UNLESS it comes to Linux first.
0 Likes
Quoting: GuestQuoting: lucifertdarkWE are potential customers, WE are willing to give them money for their work, even now. 15,000 signatures is 15,000 guaranteed customers, how many more people are out there who didn't sign the petition?
I don't care who said what or who did what to who, I want that game on Linux, I bought Witcher 1 & 2, but Witcher 3 is never going to be bought by me UNLESS it comes to Linux first.
You completely missed Kallion's point didnt you?
Also 15,000 signatures is NOT 15,000 customers. Ballot stuffing.
Linux is LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of sales. They don't NEED your sales... and if supporting you is too much hassle, they would rather just write you off. So you can scream "No Tux no Bux" all you like, but that is not going to get you anywhere. Linux simply is not a big enough market for that policy to work.
One percent of the cited 25 million is still a quarter million, far beyond your speculation of ballot stuffing.
Remember that not everyone in the Linux community is on GoG. Not everyone speaks up. It's generally assumed that if one person expresses interest, they represent several others who simply don't speak up or use that platform.
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: KelsRemember that not everyone in the Linux community is on GoG. Not everyone speaks up. It's generally assumed that if one person expresses interest, they represent several others who simply don't speak up or use that platform.
One percent is still one percent. If a business can use its people to do something more and get a larger return, then they'll do that and forget about the one percent. If you want to be a strict 'no tux, no bux'er, you'll have to accept that you'll miss out on some stuff.
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: EhvisQuoting: KelsRemember that not everyone in the Linux community is on GoG. Not everyone speaks up. It's generally assumed that if one person expresses interest, they represent several others who simply don't speak up or use that platform.
One percent is still one percent. If a business can use its people to do something more and get a larger return, then they'll do that and forget about the one percent. If you want to be a strict 'no tux, no bux'er, you'll have to accept that you'll miss out on some stuff.
I don't have unlimited (or even very much) cash and I can't play everything even if I did. I also don't expect every game to be on every system. I don't buy an Xbox and expect to play Mario Kart. That's ridiculous.
But that doesn't address the fact that you're ignoring real numbers and focusing on pessimistic percentages. If a quarter-million people buy a $60 USD game, that's not peanuts. Even on a very deep sale you're still talking millions. If you're telling me it's sensible for a game company to leave millions on the table, then I'm sure not gonna hire you to be my business manager.
And that's not even getting into the concept of developing and largely untapped markets.
2 Likes, Who?
Quoting: GuestAlso 15,000 signatures is NOT 15,000 customers.
Because there are actually way more than 15,000 Linux gamers that could buy TW3 for Linux. Way way more.
Last edited by Shmerl on 5 April 2018 at 2:37 pm UTC
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