Kingdom Come: Deliverance gets shown off on the Steam Deck

Quoting: scaine…I'm definitely native-first and big-sale-only otherwise.

Same here. There might be an occurrence of me buying a Windows-exclusive game, but it must satisfy a set of criteria: 1) be more than twelve years old; 2) have a "Platinum" rating on WINE's appdb (no, "protondb" won't do); 3) cost less than ₽100 (which means a discount most of the times) and most importantly 4) I must be really interested in it, more interested than any of the current Linux-native games at the time (not a small feat, considering point #1 -- this mandates a game to be a "Cult Classic", like "Fallout 2").
Of cource, one does not look into a gifted horse's mouth. I don't have any issues with (non-malware) freeware Windows-exclusive games like "Iji", "Cave Story" (played before Linux version came into existence), "Decker", "Orbiter", "Streets of Rage Remake" or great many others.

Quoting: scaineIt'll be interesting to see how SteamDeck changes the landscape, if at all. I'd like to see Linux (gaming) market share rise to around 5%, which I think is the point where you just can't really choose to ignore it as a platform, but a 5x increase is asking a lot, particularly in these post-COVID, silicon-starved times.

That's what Proton™ adopters are hopeful about. That increase in player base will persuade more developers to notice Linux. Personally I think there is a hole in this logic: why developers should take Linux into account if Linux gamers are demonstrating that releasing Windows-exclusive games is not only tolerated, but desirable (some say they'd rather have a Proton-compatible game than be left with unmaintained subpar "Linux port") action and the developers are not losing any money by doing so. But we shall see.

Meanwhile, we shall also see how "Warhorse Studios"'s PR department will bypass the fact that there was a Linux version promised previously and present us this Proton-compatible release as a great act of benevolence.

"No Tux No Bux reeeeeeeee"
We have all seen what this approach has achieved over the years for linux adoption and we are seeing what Proton is doing for it in the Steam monthly reports. People seem surprised that the walls of their house keep collapsing when they are actively raging against anyone trying to build a foundation for it first.

Quoting: rustybroomhandle

Quoting: fearnflavio

Quoting: rustybroomhandleAgain, sorry for being a broken record, but devs just do not realize the amount of heavy lifting done for them by Valve/partners/community and probably don't appreciate it nearly enough.

Yes, totally true.
Still, even though is an unpopular opinion, let's also do not forget that Steam deck is a product that Valve is selling to get profit. Also, they get 30% for every game sold under Steam from any dev. So it's just business, not because they 'love' Linux. They need profit and Linux is the way to go.
Same with Android. Google 'loves' Linux, uses it everywhere, but because they can have their own platform based on it. Every company in the world wants the same.

Oh, absolutely. Not disputing that one bit. At least they are pretty good about keeping their efforts open source and not also not creating locked down systems.

A lot of developers reeeally hate that 30% though and are convinced they get nothing in return for it.

Here's something that I think gets a little silly.
There are developers and there are publishers. Valve manages to do both, but also has a store for both. In the case of the big massive publishers (like Activision, Ubisoft, Electronic Arts) they pay developers whatever percentage they feel like. It's really 30% that Valve charges them, I would think. I'm betting it's something like 30% to Valve, 50% to publisher, 20% to dev studio who did all the work.

Quoting: Felix"No Tux No Bux reeeeeeeee"
We have all seen what this approach has achieved over the years for linux adoption and we are seeing what Proton is doing for it in the Steam monthly reports.

I looked - and it did nothing.
Proton is here for over three years, and the (little) rise for some months.

Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: CatKiller

• developer promises Mac & Linux support


• developer breaks promise, demonstrating that they can't be trusted


• developer promises Steam Deck support


• ...

• Linux users happily buy developer's Windows-exclusive product


• …

Well I sure ain't gonna. Partly because this whole deal gives me a bad taste in my mouth about these developers. Partly because I only buy a non-native game if it's absolutely a max-essential game to me, because if it's anything else, well, I've already got a long wishlist of Linux native games I'll have to buy before I get around to non-native. And this, while it looks like it might be a good game, is not essential to me.

Note that this does not mean I'm against the existence of Proton. To the contrary, I think Proton is strategically important, especially in the context of something like the Steam Deck. But I think there are some misunderstandings about strategy on this.

Quoting: Felix"No Tux No Bux reeeeeeeee"
We have all seen what this approach has achieved over the years for linux adoption and we are seeing what Proton is doing for it in the Steam monthly reports. People seem surprised that the walls of their house keep collapsing when they are actively raging against anyone trying to build a foundation for it first.

First of all, at 1% it didn't matter what our strategy was--without some huge company having their own strategic interest in Linux gaming, and doing things like help juice up Wine to the point where it works much more reliably, persuade Unity and Real to make their engines do Linux, and release some kind of box that does Linux gaming and sells many units so the percentage increases, Linux gaming was going to remain toast no matter what the Linux gaming consumers did. Every single person who games on Linux could come to complete consensus about the best strategic approach and apply it religiously, and nothing much would happen no matter what that approach was, because 1% is barely noise. Luckily, we have such a company which is doing that stuff, so there's some point in even talking about it.

Second, the best approach is not for everyone to do the same thing. This is why the classic approach to getting prisoners to talk is not good cop/good cop or bad cop/bad cop. Just because Proton is a good thing does not mean the optimum approach is for everyone to use it. Proton is needed if new users are to be attracted to Linux, and those new users are needed for Linux gaming to become relevant. But if the long term goal is for Linux to be a fully equal platform that gets its own games, it's best to maintain some degree of preference for native games. So I don't think people who support Proton should be unhappy about passionate Linux people preferring native games--the strategic point of Proton is not to get existing Linux gamers to give up on native games.


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 17 November 2021 at 6:36 pm UTC

Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: scaineSpeak for yourself. I only buy Windows-only games at absolutely rock bottom prices and rarely even then - most of my Windows library post-2013 is from Humble Monthly/Choice. I've bought several native titles at full price though.

Ah, nice to meet a compatriot! I myself is a strict believer in "No Tux No Bucks" philosophy. But let's not kid ourselves. We are an insignificant minority of a (in)significant minority. And some "Linux users" like to ostracize us, calling us "zealots". And that is not to mention audacious "Works Great With Proton" crowd on Reddit (and even in this very thread).

Like I said, love it or hate it, Linux is irrelevant, and the moment this game drops on Steam Deck Linux users' money will flow into the developers' pockets.

Quoting: scaineAlso, I tend to remember developer's antics.

You do. I do. But newcomers don't. And they will get the game.

As a backer of the Kickstarter campaign for Kingdom Come, I'm with you.
And of course, I requested a refund years ago that got accepted.

Quoting: LeopardCry Engine Vulkan backend state is unknown; it is safe to assume both D3D12 and Vulkan backends in Cry Engine are not mature as D3D11.

Crytek released their Crysis Remastered versions with D3D11 also.

Crytek company announced a year or so back that their engine FULLY supports DX12 and Vulkan.. I don't know what the unknown part is. DX11 likely does not perform better, especially for this type of game which has way more entities then DX11 likes!

Quoting: rustybroomhandleA lot of developers reeeally hate that 30% though and are convinced they get nothing in return for it.

If only there was another store for them to sell on, and a way for users to sideload onto their devices. Oh wait...

Quoting: TheRiddickCrytek company announced a year or so back that their engine FULLY supports DX12 and Vulkan..

They have also announced that it supports Linux. I think the proof of all of the above is in shipped games...

Quoting: TheRiddick

Quoting: LeopardCry Engine Vulkan backend state is unknown; it is safe to assume both D3D12 and Vulkan backends in Cry Engine are not mature as D3D11.

Crytek released their Crysis Remastered versions with D3D11 also.

Crytek company announced a year or so back that their engine FULLY supports DX12 and Vulkan.. I don't know what the unknown part is. DX11 likely does not perform better, especially for this type of game which has way more entities then DX11 likes!

Slapping SUPPORTED on a feature doesn't make it eventually good.

For example; Unity and Unreal supported Vulkan for a long time. What was the result?

From their POV Vulkan is basically a mobile first backend, they don't consider it as a desktop target.

https://twitter.com/SebAaltonen/status/1393120226909302787?t=fMA7J7beEVMYP5Rjk0_C9A&s=19

So "supported" is not equal to "supported" tag of D3D11.