We may potentially be in for some big changes in Fedora 44, with plans in place being discussed to drop 32-bit multilib / i686 packages.
I hope they remember what happened when Canonical planned the same for Ubuntu, when Valve jumped in to note they would no longer recommend Ubuntu and then Canonical backtracked on it. Linux distro developers may not like it, but Steam is huge and requires 32-bit to work properly for the client and for Proton / Wine.
This is only a proposed change for Fedora 44 onwards, it has not yet been approved. They're having a vote on the Fedora Forum where the change is being discussed. Even if it's approved, Steam wouldn't be the only problem, there's no doubt various other apps, tools and games that would break with such a huge change. At least with the Wine 9.0 release, WoW64 saw a huge improvement for running 32bit games on a full 64bit system.
The Fedora developers do at least note in the proposal that Wine and Steam are part of the dependencies on this, so they are thinking it through and aware of the issues.
Changes like this might push Valve to move a little quicker to adapt Steam to full 64bit, but I wouldn't expect anything ready any time soon. Especially when you look at Valve's own stats where Fedora doesn't even register in the top 11 distributions used on Steam. Although, we don't know what distros make up the 7% for the Steam Flatpak - but that's not supported by Valve anyway.
What are your thoughts?
Update 12:52 UTC - in response to some replies on their forum, the developer who proposed the change made it clear that eventually it will have to happen:
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.This is why it’s a proposal, and why I filed it more than 6 months earlier than strictly required.
But just to clarify - we will need to drop support for 32-bit x86 at some point. It’s dead, and more and more software just doesn’t support being built and / or run in 32-bit environments at all.
Yes, some things will stop working. But I hope that we can provide solutions and / or workarounds for most use cases.
And it’s better to start planning for the removal of i686 packages now than when (insert foundational package here - for example, CPython) stops supporting 32-bit architectures and we need to scramble to adapt.
About the author - Liam Dawe
I am the owner of GamingOnLinux. After discovering Linux back in the days of Mandrake in 2003, I constantly checked on the progress of Linux until Ubuntu appeared on the scene and it helped me to really love it. You can reach me easily by emailing GamingOnLinux directly. You can also follow my personal adventures on Bluesky.
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@Caldathras
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f44-change-proposal-drop-i686-support-system-wide/156324/145
No offense, but on a matter about volunteer Fedora maintainers, I'd tend to trust more a volunteer Fedora maintainer than a Joe H Random on GamingOnLinux. And so should you.
But a line needs to be drawn.
If you're against the Temu's and the Shein's of this crazy world, I hear you. If you're against planned obsolescence which would require you to buy a new iPhone every time the old one's warranty expires, I hear you. If you're against mad races to shareholder quarterly profits at the expense of everything else, I hear you.
But the technology we're discussing to get rid of (again and again) is so old that calling it "throwaway habit" after more than twenty years that the "next model" has been out is frankly embarassing.
Just for scoping what we're talking about: can you provide a list of games that you know for a fact they wouldn't work on WOW64 Proton, or without i386 compat .so's, and the date they were published?
Just to have an idea of the size of the problem.
Besides, how do you know that this issue is not being influenced by IBM or RedHat in some way?Because the engineer proposing the change says so in the very discussion thread this article is about?
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f44-change-proposal-drop-i686-support-system-wide/156324/145
No offense, but on a matter about volunteer Fedora maintainers, I'd tend to trust more a volunteer Fedora maintainer than a Joe H Random on GamingOnLinux. And so should you.
Our society has been devaluing the idea of maintenance against the "convenience" of a throwaway habit that only benefits the for-profit sector -- at the expense of our society, culture and environment.I feel the "right to repair" sentiment here, and I broadly agree with it.
But a line needs to be drawn.
If you're against the Temu's and the Shein's of this crazy world, I hear you. If you're against planned obsolescence which would require you to buy a new iPhone every time the old one's warranty expires, I hear you. If you're against mad races to shareholder quarterly profits at the expense of everything else, I hear you.
But the technology we're discussing to get rid of (again and again) is so old that calling it "throwaway habit" after more than twenty years that the "next model" has been out is frankly embarassing.
Just for scoping what we're talking about: can you provide a list of games that you know for a fact they wouldn't work on WOW64 Proton, or without i386 compat .so's, and the date they were published?
Just to have an idea of the size of the problem.
2 Likes
poiuz 3 days ago
Omfg. This again. The problem with games and steam isn’t that the client it 32bit. (Actually is 64bit). But the games that are on steam are 32bit. Wine and proton are 64bit and 32bit. However a vast major of the games are not 64 bit only. A lot are 64/32 hybrids or just 32 bit because windows. Stop thinking of just 1 and 0. Didn’t we learn anything from the Ubuntu debacle? I moved to Manjaro after that.You can't run Steam without the required 32-bit libraries - making it a 32-bit software. But Valve already has their own runtimes, they can provide whatever they want independent from the host system (it only requires kernel support). Steam games should already run containers (see pressure-vessel). So no, the games should not matter.
"Worst case scenario": They simply disable native 32-bit games on 64-bit system & just always run Proton instead.
1 Likes
R Daneel Olivaw a day ago
This article (and the other one related to bazzite) was picked up and linked to by PCGamer, just fyi:
https://www.pcgamer.com/software/linux/developers-of-linux-distro-fedora-propose-dropping-32-bit-support-entirely-but-its-being-claimed-that-the-change-would-kill-off-projects-like-bazzite-entirely/
https://www.pcgamer.com/software/linux/developers-of-linux-distro-fedora-propose-dropping-32-bit-support-entirely-but-its-being-claimed-that-the-change-would-kill-off-projects-like-bazzite-entirely/
1 Likes
Caldathras a day ago
@syylk
Thank you for your calm and reasoned response.
That being said, it is really irrelevant for, as you point out, work is in progress to address these concerns. I haven't looked into the status of WOW64 recently but my understanding is that it is still a work-in-progress. So yes, we are getting closer to the point that 32-bit libraries may no longer be necessary. I simply prefer caution over exuberance.
I have a number of games that are installed in 32-bit prefixes, but you are right. I am finding that more and more of them no longer seem to need that special treatment. (Although, Winetricks tends to complain a great deal about the 64-bit ones when adding dependencies.)
The ancient Irish had a legal system that was quite successful for a very long time. One of the hallmarks believed to have contributed to its longevity was that the judges, lawyers, and kings would meet regularly to discuss the laws, whether they were still relevant and whether they needed to be changed or revoked. Every four years, I think.
Based on what I read in the discussion, this is not much different. It is a periodic review to determine just how relevant the 32-bit libraries are and whether or not the point has been reached to consider their removal. Filtering out the opinions of zealots on either side, of course. There was some discussion about identifying which 32-bit libraries are still being actively used (Steam, Bazzite, et al) and just removing those that aren't. Overall, I am quite impressed by the process. Everyone is entitled to express their opinion as they work towards a consensus. I am quite confident that they will come to a reasonable decision.
Last edited by Caldathras on 27 Jun 2025 at 6:32 pm UTC
Thank you for your calm and reasoned response.
Because the engineer proposing the change says so in the very discussion thread this article is aboutYou caught me. I haven't had time to read the thread (until now). Thank you for the link to the relevant data. While one could argue that it's just his word, I am reasonably satisfied from what was wrote that RH is not directly involved.
the technology we're discussing to get rid of (again and again) is so oldI don't think there should be a time limit on reuse. Do you?
That being said, it is really irrelevant for, as you point out, work is in progress to address these concerns. I haven't looked into the status of WOW64 recently but my understanding is that it is still a work-in-progress. So yes, we are getting closer to the point that 32-bit libraries may no longer be necessary. I simply prefer caution over exuberance.
I have a number of games that are installed in 32-bit prefixes, but you are right. I am finding that more and more of them no longer seem to need that special treatment. (Although, Winetricks tends to complain a great deal about the 64-bit ones when adding dependencies.)
The ancient Irish had a legal system that was quite successful for a very long time. One of the hallmarks believed to have contributed to its longevity was that the judges, lawyers, and kings would meet regularly to discuss the laws, whether they were still relevant and whether they needed to be changed or revoked. Every four years, I think.
Based on what I read in the discussion, this is not much different. It is a periodic review to determine just how relevant the 32-bit libraries are and whether or not the point has been reached to consider their removal. Filtering out the opinions of zealots on either side, of course. There was some discussion about identifying which 32-bit libraries are still being actively used (Steam, Bazzite, et al) and just removing those that aren't. Overall, I am quite impressed by the process. Everyone is entitled to express their opinion as they work towards a consensus. I am quite confident that they will come to a reasonable decision.
Last edited by Caldathras on 27 Jun 2025 at 6:32 pm UTC
2 Likes
Caldathras a day ago
@syylk
against planned obsolescence which would require you to buy a new iPhone every time the old one's warranty expiresOh, you don't want to get me started on Apple. I sold their products in the '90s and '00s. Among many issues, they punished my business if we tried to provide good customer service to our customers -- by refusing to take back DOAs we accepted back from our customers. The experience of being an Apple dealer made me intensely hostile to the company and its policies. Apologies to any Apple fans on this site but I will not purchase or recommend Apple products to anyone.
5 Likes
sddt a day ago
The article mentions that Fedora doesn’t show up in Valve’s stats of Steam users. This is because on Fedora the detected OS when you run the system info tool in Steam shows “Linux 6.3” or something generic like that.
I expect a significant portion of the “Other” category to be Fedora because of this.
I expect a significant portion of the “Other” category to be Fedora because of this.
0 Likes
We should move on from the Linux kernel too. I mean it's 30 years old and requires a butt-ton of maintenance. Completely obsolete! We need to leave that crap in the past and move on to supporting software that's actually of our own millennium. Like...TempleOS.
4 Likes
R Daneel Olivaw 16 hours ago
@sddt no it doesn't, mine lists F42 as the OS in that tool. Maybe older versions of steam or Fedora misreported it?
1 Likes
Phlebiac 12 hours ago
on Fedora the detected OS when you run the system info tool in Steam shows “Linux 6.3” or something generic like that.
I was curious about this, years ago, when Steam was still new to Linux. From my investigation back then, I determined it was related to the "lsb_release" tool, which is/was not installed by default. Here is what I see with the current Steam beta client, and Fedora 42:
With the "redhat-lsb" package installed:
Operating System Version:
"Fedora release 42 (Adams)" (64 bit)
With the "lsb_release" package installed instead:
Operating System Version:
"Fedora Linux 42 (Workstation Edition)" (64 bit)
With neither of those installed (note the lack of quotes):
Operating System Version:
Fedora Linux 42 (Workstation Edition) (64 bit)
So it looks like they have some kind of fallback mechanism in place these days (reading /etc/os-release directly, perhaps).
Side note: I haven't seen it mentioned before that they honored Douglas Adams, author of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, for release 42 (the answer to life, the universe, and everything). As a fan, I must heartily approve.
2 Likes
R Daneel Olivaw 10 hours ago
^ My second favorite series of all time :) (the first being where I got the name on this account from)
Still to this day feels very prescient:
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
or my all time fav:
"Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again. Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the Universe than we do now.”
Don't Panic.
(also if you visit my bluesky you'll see I may or may not be a megafan lol) https://bsky.app/profile/jarmer.bsky.social
Last edited by R Daneel Olivaw on 29 Jun 2025 at 12:44 am UTC
Still to this day feels very prescient:
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
or my all time fav:
"Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again. Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the Universe than we do now.”
Don't Panic.
(also if you visit my bluesky you'll see I may or may not be a megafan lol) https://bsky.app/profile/jarmer.bsky.social
Last edited by R Daneel Olivaw on 29 Jun 2025 at 12:44 am UTC
1 Likes
sddt 9 hours ago
@sddt no it doesn't, mine lists F42 as the OS in that tool. Maybe older versions of steam or Fedora misreported it?
You're right, my information reported now (see no quotes):
Operating System Version:
Fedora Linux 42 (Cinnamon) (64 bit)
At one point in the past it was definitely not reporting this though.
And after installing `lsb-release` I now have quotation marks:
Operating System Version:
"Fedora Linux 42 (Cinnamon)" (64 bit)
0 Likes
sddt 9 hours ago
In any case, it's interesting that it reports the spin as part of the name, so any spin will be considered by the stats system as a separate distro. Would be really interesting to see what's in that "Other" category as it's almost a quarter of all users.
1 Likes
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