Valve to no longer offer physical gift cards due to scammers

I guess Coinstar and Gamestop can atill exchange money for wallet codes.
That should make some friends of mine happy who prefer it that way.
Wonder how the cards got that bad they were nice to grab quickly when I happen to have cash on hand but I guess we don't really need them.

I do like to exchange gamestop giftcards for steam wallet codes though when I get gifted one during a steam sale so as long as I can still do that sometimes I'm good.

Can always be creative and get a wallet code on a receipt then put it into a hallmark card with a bit of tape for a simple physical gift.

Heck get dvd cases print out the game you want the giftee to get then ibclude the receipt inside and a qr code to the game's store page would work fine too and feel like a physical gane gift.

I will miss the cards a bit though but we'll live.

Quoting: PyrateYou continue to talk about Bitcoin and bitcoin-like crytpo in particular, like everything I've mentioned about Monero is irrelevant. With all due respect, after this message, if I feel like what I type isn't being engaged with, I think I'm better off spending my time doing something else rather than write a few paragraphs that'll get avoided.

Again, do you say all this while being knowledgeable about Monero and the economy being created around it ? This is where I'm going to have to start sharing links, so here are a few examples:

Buy/sell goods & services with/for XMR!:
Directory for Merchants accepting Monero:
https:/monerica.com/
marketplace:
https://xmrbazaar.com/
https://www.reddit.com/r/moneromarket/new/
Gift cards:
https://cakepay.com/
https://xmr.cards/
https://coincards.com/
Freelance:
https://monero.jobs/

Bud no offense here but your posts literally read like you work for Monero's PR department and people generally aren't going to be inclined to engage in good faith with someone who appears to practically be quoting the corporate sales pitch word for word.

Maybe dial back the intensity a little bit and people will be more inclined to take you more seriously.

Quoting: Slaxer

Quoting: Purple Library Guybut it has become increasingly clear that the money is money and the crypto is a thingie that can be traded for money.

Not because it can't be used as money on its own, but because people just choose not to use it.

But it can't. I can't walk into a store and use crypto as money. And again, there was a time when it looked like that might become a thing, it was sort of starting to, but it did not happen, and not for lack of heavy players trying to push it.

Also, say I'm middle to lower middle class, let alone poor. I need to know how much money I have in the bank to pay the bills with. I would be amazingly stupid to have my basic bank account in crypto, because I wouldn't know whether next week I'll have enough money to pay those bills. Maybe I'll have extra, but that's just a perk, while not having enough is a much bigger deal; ordinary people need stability for their actual money. There are other reasons nobody does that, but that is one of them. Crypto is a speculative investment vehicle, not money.

Quoting: Highball

Quoting: Purple Library GuySure, there's tools to make it easy to exchange for money, but it has become increasingly clear that the money is money and the crypto is a thingie that can be traded for money.

Today it seems that way. It's all still very new.

Not really. You know, I had a significantly higher opinion of cryptocurrencies when they were new, before I knew much about them. Now I do know quite a bit about them, and I have come to the very considered opinion that they suck.

Some technologies I'm an early adopter, some technologies I resist because I conclude they are lousy but I know they will succeed whether I like them or not, and some technologies seem like they will go somewhere, but turn out to be a dead end. Newness does not guarantee future adoption. Neither does ingenuity. So for instance, I own an electric car, bought in 2018. Quite a few years ago, my Canadian province of British Columbia had a highly touted company that was about building fuel cells for like hydrogen powered vehicles. It was innovative and lots of people thought it could become pretty important. It didn't. Back then I thought maybe fuel cells had a significant future. I have come to the realization that they don't--burning hydrogen that you generated with electricity is massively less efficient than just using the electricity directly in the vehicle. There may be a few special cases, but basically it's a dead end technology. So is crypto. Like private equity finance cannibalizing previously profitable firms, it's a symptom of our current economic moment. The fact that significant ingenuity has been dedicated to trying to make it work does not change its fundamental inappropriateness to the task of being money.

Crypto ultimately comes out of a particular politics, a politics of big-L Libertarianism. It can't work because big-L Libertarianism is bunk that only spreads because it is useful to some of the very wealthy people picking our pockets.

Guys, I'm very curious... what do you think of the Ğ1 ("June"), then?
[https://duniter.org/](https://duniter.org/)

Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it can't. I can't walk into a store and use crypto as money. And again, there was a time when it looked like that might become a thing, it was sort of starting to, but it did not happen, and not for lack of heavy players trying to push it.

Other than volatility, why do you suppose businesses choose not to take it as payment? Not debating here, just picking your brain.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyQuite a few years ago, my Canadian province of British Columbia

Hola.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyIt can't work because big-L Libertarianism is bunk that only spreads because it is useful to some of the very wealthy people picking our pockets.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyAlso, say I'm middle to lower middle class, let alone poor. I need to know how much money I have in the bank to pay the bills with. I would be amazingly stupid to have my basic bank account in crypto, because I wouldn't know whether next week I'll have enough money to pay those bills.

It's funny you mention that. Canada's in debt $1.3ish Trillion (capital T), so the money sitting in your bank account is increasingly becoming more and more worthless by the day - and that's on top of the fact that you're also being taxed more on it than they did in the past. So you're losing money on two fronts, inflation, and taxes - which is something that can be entirely blamed on one group of people. Take a guess who? In theory, Bitcoin could fix half of that problem.

And btw, I would be considered "wealthy" by the government's standards... which is why HALF of my sweat blood and tears goes to the government - only to be squandered and spent in ways that only benefit themselves, and not the country. Trust me, people like me aren't the ones stealing from you. But anyway... let's bring it back to those gift cards eh? lol

Last edited by Slaxer on 12 Jun 2026 at 4:10 am UTC

Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it can't. I can't walk into a store and use crypto as money.

You can. I pay with my decaf.so card. As I said, the network automatically converts to what they are charging. It costs pennies and takes a few seconds.

Also, say I'm middle to lower middle class, let alone poor. I need to know how much money I have in the bank to pay the bills with. I would be amazingly stupid to have my basic bank account in crypto, because I wouldn't know whether next week I'll have enough money to pay those bills.

That's already a solved problem. Store their money in a stable coin of their choosing. Something that will become easier and easier as institutions build out. Easy if someone has shown you what to do a few times. Still probably not for normies yet.

Crypto is a speculative investment vehicle, not money.

Only if you transfer your value to a volatile currency. Stripe, Paypal, MoneyGram, they aren't storing your wealth in BTC or ETH. They are using coins pegged to USD. There are other coins pegged to other currencies. My Decaf.so card is using USDC. Again, all this is very new. It's not old school mine for BTC and DOGE coin or ETH or something.

Not really. You know, I had a significantly higher opinion of cryptocurrencies when they were new, before I knew much about them. Now I do know quite a bit about them, and I have come to the very considered opinion that they suck.

Yes really. It sounds like you are just a little out of date. Kind of like talking to someone who used Linux in the 90's and determined Linux is only for programmers and keeps saying it even though it's been 30 years. Things have wildly changed over the last couple years.

Crypto ultimately comes out of a particular politics, a politics of big-L Libertarianism. It can't work because big-L Libertarianism is bunk that only spreads because it is useful to some of the very wealthy people picking our pockets.

Okay, but it does work, today. Right now, it's working. It's still very new, so it's not ubiquitous yet. In my case, The VISA I have issued by my Decaf.so has a waiting list because its new. Meru is the same. But it's all coming. Also it's a little rough on the edges in places, i.e. anchors. Normies are still going to have to wait for institutions to build it in.

Checkout Hoops Sagrado, they have a video on Twitter explaining how using the block chain to pay volunteers, instead of traveling to and through Guatamala with backpacks full of cash, has been a big deal for them. It's safer for them and safer for the volunteers. Each volunteers money was transferred into a self custodial wallet. Decaf.so is a platform for paying employees using the blockchain, among other things (like I've mentioned).

It's all happening. Definitely not the Block chain you remember. Stores don't have to post a BTC QR code and for you to pay with only your BTC wallet, then pay a massive gas fee and stand there for ten minutes for consensus.

Quoting: Carolly

Quoting: PyrateYou continue to talk about Bitcoin and bitcoin-like crytpo in particular, like everything I've mentioned about Monero is irrelevant. With all due respect, after this message, if I feel like what I type isn't being engaged with, I think I'm better off spending my time doing something else rather than write a few paragraphs that'll get avoided.

Again, do you say all this while being knowledgeable about Monero and the economy being created around it ? This is where I'm going to have to start sharing links, so here are a few examples:

Buy/sell goods & services with/for XMR!:
Directory for Merchants accepting Monero:

Bud no offense here but your posts literally read like you work for Monero's PR department and people generally aren't going to be inclined to engage in good faith with someone who appears to practically be quoting the corporate sales pitch word for word.

Maybe dial back the intensity a little bit and people will be more inclined to take you more seriously.

Is this really how you guys find my messages, like PR ? I only answered what I got asked. How can I prove to you that I'm actually debating in good faith and out of passion ? I don't understand how my messages get read like intense ads, like, did I ever do the thing and talked about price, or said "you should buy it now, it'll go to the moon !!" or anything like that ? Genuinely curious here.

Also, I mentioned this a bit previously, but this is exactly, and I mean exactly what happened with me and my friends when I asked them to switch to Signal for messaging with me, "they pay you for advertising ?". Sigh...

..Just like Signal, there's no PR department nor a sales pitch for open source communities (afaik, maybe there is one for Signal since there's a organisation behind it, can't tell). You are simply unaware of a project and are choosing to be on the guard. I get it but it still feels a little insulting that as a relatively old member here in the website, I'm not being taken seriously for mentioning an open source project for the privacy conscious, where you'd think this kind of place (and specifically this post) would call for such a discussion to be taking place. Guess I'm wrong.

Last edited by Pyrate on 12 Jun 2026 at 9:32 am UTC

On the Monero discussion.
Monero is a great idea by non-scammy people(that's very rare for a niche crypto currency).
It's such a great idea that rich [scumbags](https://monero.observer/antidarknet-collective-claims-responsibility-suspected-monero-spam-attack/) found the need to [ruin it.](https://cryptoapis.io/blog/365-understanding-the-monero-51-attack-technical-insights-for-developers-and-product-managers)

Edit:
also relevant to this discussion.
Valve will never accept monero, because it's anonymous and decentralized.
The scammers for which they sacrificed their own gift cards would exploit exactly this decentralization and anonymity to hide their activity.

Monero isn't designed as a crypto scam(it's actually decentralized), Monero is actually anonymous(only individual transaction can be traced with enough effort), it's old and tested and it's not even an exit scam.

Last edited by LoudTechie on 12 Jun 2026 at 9:33 am UTC

Quoting: PyrateJust like Signal, there's no PR dependent nor a search pitch for open source communities (afaik, maybe there is one for Signal since there's a organisation behind it, can't tell). You are simply unaware of a project and are choosing to be on the guard. I get it but it still feels a little insulting that as a relatively old member here in the website, I'm not being taken seriously for mentioning an open source project for the privacy conscious, where you'd think this kind of place (and specifically this post) would call for such a discussion to be taking place. Guess I'm wrong.

There's a difference here. Signal—which I've used for years—protects my private communications from foreign corporations and (other) bad actors. Monero would protect my financial activity from heavily regulated banks and my government, which I'm a lot less concerned about. Some communities have excellent reasons to hide this activity, but most of us do not.

Crypto doesn't actually seem to solve a problem I have. I am very privacy-conscious, but I try to keep my paranoia to a reasonable level. I don't like corporations tracking my private life and communications, but my buying habits aren't something I feel like I need to hide from the tax man or the police. Banks I don't really trust to care about my privacy as long as they can make a profit, but the regulations here in the EU seem to keep them in check, for the most part.

In the end, all I need is a secure way to transfer money from my bank account to that of the recipient, preferably without divulging any of my private information to third parties, and only minimal information to the payee. I don't care if blockchain tech is used under the hood, as long as it all works quickly, efficiently and securely.

I view people who get very passionate about crypto the same way I view enthusiastic small-time stock traders. They keep talking my ear off about how they make (or save) money with it and everyone should do it, and I indulge them to a point because I'm nice and patient like that (in real life more than online), but I just don't find any of it interesting. Money is a necessity and I've never been wealthy enough to ignore it. It's just not something I could ever get passionate about.

Quoting: tuubiI view people who get very passionate about crypto the same way I view enthusiastic small-time stock traders. They keep talking my ear off about how they make (or save) money with it and everyone should do it, and I indulge them to a point because I'm nice and patient like that (in real life more than online), but I just don't find any of it interesting. Money is a necessity and I've never been wealthy enough to ignore it. It's just not something I could ever get passionate about.

Im sorry, but point to me where I did this here, where did I talk about making or saving money, market price, hype and all that wall street crap ?

Monero would protect my financial activity from heavily regulated banks and my government, which I'm a lot less concerned about. Some communities have excellent reasons to hide this activity, but most of us do not.

Only if you choose to. You can disclose your transactions for taxes or any other reason. I could explain how it works but I'm getting fed up with still being talked to like a crypto bro, I'll just share that optional transparency is a built-in function into a Monero wallet for auditing and taxes etc.

I'm not paranoid and this isn't about paranoia. Speaking for myself for example, I recognise what is a real and what is a more theoretical danger when I'm constructing my threat model, but most of the time, I use privacy tools out of principle more than out of immediate need. This is something I feel is lost for many people recently, at least that's what I'm getting online. Recently I keep recalling that one Luke Smith youtube video about in projects like Linux, how users are slowly abandoning the freedom hard lines started with Free Software and GNU etc. I think we need more hardasses, the Stallman type, so we don't drift away in convenience and complacency.

Quoting: LoudTechiealso relevant to this discussion.
Valve will never accept monero, because it's anonymous and decentralized.
The scammers for which they sacrificed their own gift cards would exploit exactly this decentralization and anonymity to hide their activity.

Even though I can't imagine how that could happen, (just like how I cant believe peoole sfill fall for gift card scams), you're probably right. I wonder when this stops being about a problem with gift cards and currencies, and more about people not thinking clearly when falling for these scams.

Quoting: Pyrate

Quoting: LoudTechiealso relevant to this discussion.
Valve will never accept monero, because it's anonymous and decentralized.
The scammers for which they sacrificed their own gift cards would exploit exactly this decentralization and anonymity to hide their activity.

Even though I can't imagine how that could happen, (just like how I cant believe peoole sfill fall for gift card scams), you're probably right. I wonder when this stops being about a problem with gift cards and currencies, and more about people not thinking clearly when falling for these scams.

Never.
Financial regulations are strict for a reason.
Finance is based on trust as such all trust the government can insert it will insert and be rewarded for it.
"People won't lie and cheat you out of your money" is a big part of this.

Edit:
the closest we will ever get is by replacing those features.
Wallets with daily spending limits, MFA on the blockchain, shared "wallet black/white lists", anonymity erosion for larger wallets, etc.

Remember when you build a substitute for something make certain it's at least as good and integrates cleanly with the current system.

Last edited by LoudTechie on 12 Jun 2026 at 11:06 am UTC

Quoting: Pyrate

Quoting: tuubiI view people who get very passionate about crypto the same way I view enthusiastic small-time stock traders. They keep talking my ear off about how they make (or save) money with it and everyone should do it, and I indulge them to a point because I'm nice and patient like that (in real life more than online), but I just don't find any of it interesting. Money is a necessity and I've never been wealthy enough to ignore it. It's just not something I could ever get passionate about.

Im sorry, but point to me where I did this here, where did I talk about making or saving money, market price, hype and all that wall street crap ?

I know, you come from a different angle. My example was mostly about the traders. But both groups (and I'm not talking about you, specifically) want to talk to me about money/currency, or how I'm using it wrong, or maybe how I should use this or that tech to get around the system.

Sorry that I kinda grouped you in with the cryptobros. In my defence, you compared me to Windows and WhatsApp users, which is way worse in my opinion. 😁

Quoting: Pyrate

Monero would protect my financial activity from heavily regulated banks and my government, which I'm a lot less concerned about. Some communities have excellent reasons to hide this activity, but most of us do not.

Only if you choose to. You can disclose your transactions for taxes or any other reason. I could explain how it works but I'm getting fed up with still being talked to like a crypto bro, I'll just share that optional transparency is a built-in function into a Monero wallet for auditing and taxes etc.

Yes, but this is a solution looking for a problem, or rather a solution to someone else's problem, as far as I can tell. And this isn't a disagreement you can fix by explaining. It's not intellectual laziness or lack of understanding on my part, and even less about giving up privacy for convenience. I wouldn't have been using Linux for ~25 years if that was the case, and I'd probably have owned an Android or Apple mobile device at some point. Or caved in and got on WhatsApp or LinkedIn or whatever social media I've been cajoled to join over the years. As I said, I like my privacy, but not everything privacy-related is equal in importance.

I don't mind that Monero exists, but if it's ever accepted as a mainstream currency, its use needs to be regulated and monitored, losing many of its apparent benefits.

Quoting: Pyrate

Quoting: LoudTechiealso relevant to this discussion.
Valve will never accept monero, because it's anonymous and decentralized.
The scammers for which they sacrificed their own gift cards would exploit exactly this decentralization and anonymity to hide their activity.

Even though I can't imagine how that could happen, (just like how I cant believe peoole sfill fall for gift card scams), you're probably right. I wonder when this stops being about a problem with gift cards and currencies, and more about people not thinking clearly when falling for these scams.

People will always fall for scams. That's not a problem that'll ever go away. Which is why we need governments, laws and regulations to protect the vulnerable. Of course governments do that with varying success and enthusiasm, but that's a political and social problem that doesn't have a technical solution.

Quoting: Pyrate

Quoting: tuubiI view people who get very passionate about crypto the same way I view enthusiastic small-time stock traders. They keep talking my ear off about how they make (or save) money with it and everyone should do it, and I indulge them to a point because I'm nice and patient like that (in real life more than online), but I just don't find any of it interesting. Money is a necessity and I've never been wealthy enough to ignore it. It's just not something I could ever get passionate about.

Im sorry, but point to me where I did this here, where did I talk about making or saving money, market price, hype and all that wall street crap ?

Monero would protect my financial activity from heavily regulated banks and my government, which I'm a lot less concerned about. Some communities have excellent reasons to hide this activity, but most of us do not.

Only if you choose to. You can disclose your transactions for taxes or any other reason. I could explain how it works but I'm getting fed up with still being talked to like a crypto bro, I'll just share that optional transparency is a built-in function into a Monero wallet for auditing and taxes etc.

I'm not paranoid and this isn't about paranoia. Speaking for myself for example, I recognise what is a real and what is a more theoretical danger when I'm constructing my threat model, but most of the time, I use privacy tools out of principle more than out of immediate need. This is something I feel is lost for many people recently, at least that's what I'm getting online. Recently I keep recalling that one Luke Smith youtube video about in projects like Linux, how users are slowly abandoning the freedom hard lines started with Free Software and GNU etc. I think we need more hardasses, the Stallman type, so we don't drift away in convenience and complacency.

On the hyped up cryptobro part.
You're not being treated like a cryptobro. You're experiencing something even more frustrating:
"I've nothing to hide."
A cryptobro would get fundamental disbelief in the promises they make, not in their value.
"crypto is decentralized": except for all the exit scams.
"crypto is the future": except for all the exit scams.
"crypto can do anything": you don't know what you're talking about.
"crypto ...": I'm done hearing about these scams.

As to why this is frustrating,
a. because it devalues other people's needs.
b. because it undercounts one's reliance on fundamental rights.
To say it with a quote I got from schneiers website, but attributed to someone else.
Saying you don't need privacy, because you've nothing to hide is like saying you don't need free speech, because you have nothing to say.

About the complacency part.
I disagree kinda.
Users are going to the centralized semi-free options, because they come from fully proprietary systems and are used to thinking that way and have become to love the strengths of the existing systems.
In general it's going in the right direction.
Just not in the jumps hardliners and early adopters believe in.

Also even a little extra freedom helps a lot.
If Redhat sufficiently fucks up systemD we can fork it with a patch. Would this be a lot of work, yes. Would this be less work than the entire Wine project(which tackles the Windows equivalent) easily, because we have the source code.
Do proprietary kernel modules render your system less free and give root to dangerous parties, absolutely. Still I can patch the interface to limit their power and repair their mistakes For Windows and Mac that requires a jailbreak.
Do locked bootloaders illegally, but unrepentant limit consumer choice. Undeniably, but they still can't sue you under the DMCA for a jailbreak.
Or an example from this forum. If our proprietary electron program botches their testing we can still patch electron without any license problems.

Hardasses are important they remind us how we can improve the world, but they're too blinded by their rage to see the the individual value of the incremental improvements.

Last edited by LoudTechie on 12 Jun 2026 at 11:45 am UTC

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: Pyrate

Quoting: tuubiI view people who get very passionate about crypto the same way I view enthusiastic small-time stock traders. They keep talking my ear off about how they make (or save) money with it and everyone should do it, and I indulge them to a point because I'm nice and patient like that (in real life more than online), but I just don't find any of it interesting. Money is a necessity and I've never been wealthy enough to ignore it. It's just not something I could ever get passionate about.

Im sorry, but point to me where I did this here, where did I talk about making or saving money, market price, hype and all that wall street crap ?

I know, you come from a different angle. My example was mostly about the traders. But both groups (and I'm not talking about you, specifically) want to talk to me about money/currency, or how I'm using it wrong, or maybe how I should use this or that tech to get around the system.

Sorry that I kinda grouped you in with the cryptobros. In my defence, you compared me to Windows and WhatsApp users, which is way worse in my opinion. 😁

Quoting: Pyrate

Monero would protect my financial activity from heavily regulated banks and my government, which I'm a lot less concerned about. Some communities have excellent reasons to hide this activity, but most of us do not.

Only if you choose to. You can disclose your transactions for taxes or any other reason. I could explain how it works but I'm getting fed up with still being talked to like a crypto bro, I'll just share that optional transparency is a built-in function into a Monero wallet for auditing and taxes etc.

Yes, but this is a solution looking for a problem, or rather a solution to someone else's problem, as far as I can tell. And this isn't a disagreement you can fix by explaining. It's not intellectual laziness or lack of understanding on my part, and even less about giving up privacy for convenience. I wouldn't have been using Linux for ~25 years if that was the case, and I'd probably have owned an Android or Apple mobile device at some point. Or caved in and got on WhatsApp or LinkedIn or whatever social media I've been cajoled to join over the years. As I said, I like my privacy, but not everything privacy-related is equal in importance.

I don't mind that Monero exists, but if it's ever accepted as a mainstream currency, its use needs to be regulated and monitored, losing many of its apparent benefits.

Quoting: Pyrate

Quoting: LoudTechiealso relevant to this discussion.
Valve will never accept monero, because it's anonymous and decentralized.
The scammers for which they sacrificed their own gift cards would exploit exactly this decentralization and anonymity to hide their activity.

Even though I can't imagine how that could happen, (just like how I cant believe peoole sfill fall for gift card scams), you're probably right. I wonder when this stops being about a problem with gift cards and currencies, and more about people not thinking clearly when falling for these scams.

People will always fall for scams. That's not a problem that'll ever go away. Which is why we need governments, laws and regulations to protect the vulnerable. Of course governments do that with varying success and enthusiasm, but that's a political and social problem that doesn't have a technical solution.

On the anonymity thing
Anonymity from the bank is still achieved.
Only the regulator gets access to this information this way.

Also anonymity is valuable for everybody, because its a big part of our shield against oppression. In transactions and in communications. It's all the same.
Nothing to hide is a myth(kinda).
In this case for example you wouldn't be comfortable sharing your transaction details with me(don't do it please) proving there's at one person you want to hide this data from.
You don't know [who ](https://unbanx.substack.com/p/banks-are-selling-your-data-heres)your bank is sharing it with(maybe I'm it) or [what](https://artoftruth.org/data-broker-stalking-spokeo-harassment/) they're using it for.
Also anonymity is a herd immunity thing. Only when we're anonymous together are we truly anonymous(simplest case, when I know Monero has only one payer and one payed all transactions can easily be traced).

On the regulation thing.
I disagree that finance needs to be regulated on the current level.
It needs to be limited on the current level.
If crypto wants to succeed it must find a way to implement the currently centralized controls in a decentralized manner.
So not by sacrificing transaction anonymity, so the centralized police and banks can take care of it.
No by, building those controls in the system itself.
First start by copying the features of a good banking app.
MFA, double naming, transaction tagging, daily limits, blacklists, geoblocking, etc.
From that moment it can at least call itself a real decentralized alternative to banks.
If it wants to become an alternative to financial regulators.
It needs to obtain dedicated Big Fish controls, trusted judgement, sanctions, white listing, public minting, etc.

So contrary to you I believe Monero like crypto has great potential. Contrary to Pyrate I think it's not there yet.

Quoting: LoudTechie

Quoting: Pyrate

Quoting: tuubiI view people who get very passionate about crypto the same way I view enthusiastic small-time stock traders. They keep talking my ear off about how they make (or save) money with it and everyone should do it, and I indulge them to a point because I'm nice and patient like that (in real life more than online), but I just don't find any of it interesting. Money is a necessity and I've never been wealthy enough to ignore it. It's just not something I could ever get passionate about.

Im sorry, but point to me where I did this here, where did I talk about making or saving money, market price, hype and all that wall street crap ?

Monero would protect my financial activity from heavily regulated banks and my government, which I'm a lot less concerned about. Some communities have excellent reasons to hide this activity, but most of us do not.

Only if you choose to. You can disclose your transactions for taxes or any other reason. I could explain how it works but I'm getting fed up with still being talked to like a crypto bro, I'll just share that optional transparency is a built-in function into a Monero wallet for auditing and taxes etc.

I'm not paranoid and this isn't about paranoia. Speaking for myself for example, I recognise what is a real and what is a more theoretical danger when I'm constructing my threat model, but most of the time, I use privacy tools out of principle more than out of immediate need. This is something I feel is lost for many people recently, at least that's what I'm getting online. Recently I keep recalling that one Luke Smith youtube video about in projects like Linux, how users are slowly abandoning the freedom hard lines started with Free Software and GNU etc. I think we need more hardasses, the Stallman type, so we don't drift away in convenience and complacency.

On the hyped up cryptobro part.
You're not being treated like a cryptobro. You're experiencing something even more frustrating:
"I've nothing to hide."
A cryptobro would get fundamental disbelief in the promises they make, not in their value.
"crypto is decentralized": except for all the exit scams.
"crypto is the future": except for all the exit scams.
"crypto can do anything": you don't know what you're talking about.
"crypto ...": I'm done hearing about these scams.

As to why this is frustrating,
a. because it devalues other people's needs.
b. because it undercounts one's reliance on fundamental rights.
To say it with a quote I got from schneiers website, but attributed to someone else.
Saying you don't need privacy, because you've nothing to hide is like saying you don't need free speech, because you have nothing to say.

About the complacency part.
I disagree kinda.
Users are going to the centralized semi-free options, because they come from fully proprietary systems and are used to thinking that way and have become to love the strengths of the existing systems.
In general it's going in the right direction.
Just not in the jumps hardliners and early adopters believe in.

Also even a little extra freedom helps a lot.
If Redhat sufficiently fucks up systemD we can fork it with a patch. Would this be a lot of work, yes. Would this be less work than the entire Wine project(which tackles the Windows equivalent) easily, because we have the source code.
Do proprietary kernel modules render your system less free and give root to dangerous parties, absolutely. Still I can patch the interface to limit their power and repair their mistakes For Windows and Mac that requires a jailbreak.
Do locked bootloaders illegally, but unrepentant limit consumer choice. Undeniably, but they still can't sue you under the DMCA for a jailbreak.
Or an example from this forum. If our proprietary electron program botches their testing we can still patch electron without any license problems.

Hardasses are important they remind us how we can improve the world, but they're too blinded by their rage to see the the individual value of the incremental improvements.

I think it's an issue of balance. Taking the SystemD example, when is it that the community draws the line ? Personally, the comically-fast and instant compliance with age verification fiasco a month or two ago was it for ne. I'm sort of coerced to continue to use SystemD currently, even though that was the final straw for me and I'd rather use something else now.

So it's like a continuous battle to balance out the hardass-ness with the complacency. I tend to lean more on the former (even though I don't at all feel like I'm doing a lot of work in doing so, it just seems to me everyone else is so lazy and quick to sideline what they claim to believe in). But as long as the right people don't go all the way and they don't lose the plot, you're right in that fighting back is possible.

Also, about regulations being a necessity etc etc, I get it. But I really won't play along if any countermeasure gets implemented ends up chipping away at one of the rights that were once given, that's in brief my angle on all that 'the system is important, actually'.