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Title: Don't get your hopes up for Batman
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mao_dze_dun 23 Jun 2015
Being a filthy dual booter I decided to bring some Linux relevant news from the arcane land of Windows. The Windows Batman: Arkham Knight release just came out and there has been a landslide of negative reviews. It seems the game is a very, very, very bad console port. It's capped at 30fps by default and if unlocked in the settings file begins to stutter like mad. There is inconsistent and low frame rate no matter what the hardware. Even people with 980ti and TitanX cards are reporting bad performance. Also for some reason some of the textures (including the Batmobile) are upscaled from 900p, so basically - blur. The performance problems are across the board for both AMD and Nvidia, even though this is an actual GameWorks title. I decided to share the info, because I know some of you are really looking forward to the Linux port. As things seem as the moment - there is no clarity when the game will actually come to Linux, as obviously their main focus now will be to make it playable on Windows, and also there is no guarantee what Linux performance will be. I'm just saying - be prepared for another Dying Light and don't get your hopes up. This was supposed to be a potential Game of the Year candidate but came out a real train wreck.
neffo 23 Jun 2015
Rolling back the drivers on Nvidia seems to fix it.
wolfyrion 23 Jun 2015
Well there is always an option or a workaround to remove the capped at 30fps ...

Just wait a bit for the patches I guess and tbh I am so excited for this!
They will fix all the glitches on Windows and give to Linux users a great experience :D

Winter is coming!
Mountain Man 23 Jun 2015
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The good news for us is that the Linux version is still several months away, so Feral Interactive has plenty of time to optimize and incorporate whatever patches get released in the coming weeks to ensure that it's smooth sailing for friends of Tux.
Mountain Man 23 Jun 2015
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Quoting: mao_dze_dunAs things seem as the moment - there is no clarity when the game will actually come to Linux, as obviously their main focus now will be to make it playable on Windows...
Different developers. Rocksteady outsourced the Windows port to Iron Galaxy. Feral Interactive is doing the Linux port. Unless Feral is waiting for source code from Iron Galaxy (and why would they?), this shouldn't cause any delays for the Linux version.
sub 23 Jun 2015
Judging by the minimum system requirement for windows and taking into account the usual multiplier for Linux port requirements (>> 1), this hardware does not yet exist, I'm afraid.
mao_dze_dun 24 Jun 2015
Quoting: Mountain Man
Quoting: mao_dze_dunAs things seem as the moment - there is no clarity when the game will actually come to Linux, as obviously their main focus now will be to make it playable on Windows...
Different developers. Rocksteady outsourced the Windows port to Iron Galaxy. Feral Interactive is doing the Linux port. Unless Feral is waiting for source code from Iron Galaxy (and why would they?), this shouldn't cause any delays for the Linux version.
In an ideal world it would be so, but considering we have no Day-One release for Linux, I'm starting to think they will actually share code.
Mountain Man 24 Jun 2015
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Quoting: mao_dze_dun
Quoting: Mountain Man
Quoting: mao_dze_dunAs things seem as the moment - there is no clarity when the game will actually come to Linux, as obviously their main focus now will be to make it playable on Windows...
Different developers. Rocksteady outsourced the Windows port to Iron Galaxy. Feral Interactive is doing the Linux port. Unless Feral is waiting for source code from Iron Galaxy (and why would they?), this shouldn't cause any delays for the Linux version.
In an ideal world it would be so, but considering we have no Day-One release for Linux, I'm starting to think they will actually share code.
By all accounts, Iron Galaxy rushed the port and threw it out the door just to meet the release date. Rumor says they only had 8-weeks to do the job. Feral Interactive, on the other hand, seems to be setting their own timetable and will have a lot more time to get the job done right.
sub 24 Jun 2015
Quoting: Mountain Man
Quoting: mao_dze_dun
Quoting: Mountain Man
Quoting: mao_dze_dunAs things seem as the moment - there is no clarity when the game will actually come to Linux, as obviously their main focus now will be to make it playable on Windows...
Different developers. Rocksteady outsourced the Windows port to Iron Galaxy. Feral Interactive is doing the Linux port. Unless Feral is waiting for source code from Iron Galaxy (and why would they?), this shouldn't cause any delays for the Linux version.
In an ideal world it would be so, but considering we have no Day-One release for Linux, I'm starting to think they will actually share code.
By all accounts, Iron Galaxy rushed the port and threw it out the door just to meet the release date. Rumor says they only had 8-weeks to do the job. Feral Interactive, on the other hand, seems to be setting their own timetable and will have a lot more time to get the job done right.
But on way more problematic platforms, unless they're using Metal on Mac.
Vulkan might also solve a fair bit on the Linux side once released with *good* driver support.
ricki42 24 Jun 2015
Quoting: mao_dze_dunIn an ideal world it would be so, but considering we have no Day-One release for Linux, I'm starting to think they will actually share code.
Feral's port is based on the windows port, so I would assume that they share code. I just hope that by the time the Linux version comes out, most problems will have been fixed.
Mountain Man 24 Jun 2015
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Quoting: ricki42Feral's port is based on the windows port...
Can you confirm this? I'm pretty sure it's going to be a native Linux port and not just a wrapper. That's how they've done their other Linux ports.
sub 24 Jun 2015
Quoting: Mountain Man
Quoting: ricki42Feral's port is based on the windows port...
Can you confirm this? I'm pretty sure it's going to be a native Linux port and not just a wrapper. That's how they've done their other Linux ports.
So what? This does not necessarily mean it is using a wrapper.

However, "wrapper" is a difficult term and means different things depending on the actual approach.
Mountain Man 24 Jun 2015
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Quoting: sub
Quoting: Mountain Man
Quoting: ricki42Feral's port is based on the windows port...
Can you confirm this? I'm pretty sure it's going to be a native Linux port and not just a wrapper. That's how they've done their other Linux ports.
So what? This does not necessarily mean it is using a wrapper.
Um... yeah, that was my point. Their other Linux ports have been native builds, so I doubt they're using a wrapper for Arkham Knight, not unless they want to basically double the system requirements.
ricki42 24 Jun 2015
Quoting: Mountain Man
Quoting: ricki42Feral's port is based on the windows port...
Can you confirm this? I'm pretty sure it's going to be a native Linux port and not just a wrapper. That's how they've done their other Linux ports.
Sorry, I worded that badly, I didn't mean that it's a wrapper, just that they start from the Windows version, not from the console version. I asked them on Twitter about this https://twitter.com/feralgames/status/613621694087983104
mao_dze_dun 25 Jun 2015
And a quick update: [http://www.pcgamer.com/warner-bros-is-suspending-sales-of-batman-arkham-knight-for-pc/](http://www.pcgamer.com/warner-bros-is-suspending-sales-of-batman-arkham-knight-for-pc/)

Apparently Warner decided to freeze all PC sales for the moment until the problem is resolved.
Now about the code - the game uses the Unreal Engine 3. Not sure how that translates into the porting process. The Linux games that are using that engine are Borderlands and Bioshock. One's native, the other is using a wrapper.
Mountain Man 25 Jun 2015
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Quoting: mao_dze_dunNow about the code - the game uses the Unreal Engine 3. Not sure how that translates into the porting process. The Linux games that are using that engine are Borderlands and Bioshock. One's native, the other is using a wrapper.
XCOM also runs on Unreal Engine 3, and Feral's port is excellent.
Mountain Man 25 Jun 2015
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Quoting: ricki42
Quoting: Mountain Man
Quoting: ricki42Feral's port is based on the windows port...
Can you confirm this? I'm pretty sure it's going to be a native Linux port and not just a wrapper. That's how they've done their other Linux ports.
Sorry, I worded that badly, I didn't mean that it's a wrapper, just that they start from the Windows version, not from the console version. I asked them on Twitter about this
https://twitter.com/feralgames/status/613621694087983104
Ah, O.K., thanks for that.

So I wonder how long it'll take Rocksteady/Iron Galaxy to fix the PC port, and then how much longer after that it'll be before Feral is happy with the Linux version? I wonder if there's any chance of it happening before Christmas.
sub 25 Jun 2015
Quoting: Mountain Man
Quoting: mao_dze_dunNow about the code - the game uses the Unreal Engine 3. Not sure how that translates into the porting process. The Linux games that are using that engine are Borderlands and Bioshock. One's native, the other is using a wrapper.
XCOM also runs on Unreal Engine 3, and Feral's port is excellent.
I think XCOM:EU is not the best game to judge if a port is excellent since it lacks the requirement on smooth frame rates.
I agree, the XCOM port is flawless when it comes to graphical and gameplay bugs, at least I didn't spot any .
But when it comes to performance, the gameplay is simply not demanding. Low frame rates wouldn't be a big issue for this game and you would even hardly notice it.
This is fundamentally different for games like Batman.
melkemind 25 Jun 2015
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Quoting: Mountain Man
Quoting: mao_dze_dunNow about the code - the game uses the Unreal Engine 3. Not sure how that translates into the porting process. The Linux games that are using that engine are Borderlands and Bioshock. One's native, the other is using a wrapper.
XCOM also runs on Unreal Engine 3, and Feral's port is excellent.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but my post on the issues with porting Unreal 3 games is relevant here. The Xcom port was relatively bug free, as sub mentioned, but in terms of performance, the frame rate was significantly lower than the Windows version. With a game like Batman, that could result in an almost unplayable experience, even if they fix the Windows port, unless Feral finds a way to port Unreal 3 more efficiently.

Moreover, there are several "versions" of Unreal 3 floating around, and I don't mean sequential versions but rather customized ones. Many hands were involved in the Linux porting, resulting in a hodgepodge of code. I'm getting this info directly from this website. The Arkham version of UE3 could be quite different from the Xcom version.

I do believe Feral will try their best. I'm just wondering if that will be good enough without an official engine port for Linux.
mao_dze_dun 25 Jun 2015
Quoting: melkemind
Quoting: Mountain Man
Quoting: mao_dze_dunNow about the code - the game uses the Unreal Engine 3. Not sure how that translates into the porting process. The Linux games that are using that engine are Borderlands and Bioshock. One's native, the other is using a wrapper.
XCOM also runs on Unreal Engine 3, and Feral's port is excellent.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but my post on the issues with porting Unreal 3 games is relevant here. The Xcom port was relatively bug free, as sub mentioned, but in terms of performance, the frame rate was significantly lower than the Windows version. With a game like Batman, that could result in an almost unplayable experience, even if they fix the Windows port, unless Feral finds a way to port Unreal 3 more efficiently.

Moreover, there are several "versions" of Unreal 3 floating around, and I don't mean sequential versions but rather customized ones. Many hands were involved in the Linux porting, resulting in a hodgepodge of code. I'm getting this info directly from this website. The Arkham version of UE3 could be quite different from the Xcom version.

I do believe Feral will try their best. I'm just wondering if that will be good enough without an official engine port for Linux.
It should also be noted that Unreal Engine 3 is not the most resource optimized engine in general. The only reason most people don't have problems with running UE3 games in Windows is that the hardware has finally outpaced the engine's limitations.
Mountain Man 25 Jun 2015
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Quoting: melkemindI do believe Feral will try their best. I'm just wondering if that will be good enough without an official engine port for Linux.
I thought Unreal Engine 3 natively supports Linux. Is this not correct?

Dungeon Defenders is another UE3 powered game, and it runs great in Linux, even when playing split-screen multiplayer.
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