I can only consider a game DRM free when;

1. I can store copies of it locally.

2. Even if I gave up internet access for the rest of my life, those games would still be fully installable and playable from said local storage without the need for a client or 3rd party program.

3. This process can be done as many times as I want, on any machine running any user and no checking of regions, accounts or other BS, totally unrestricted *as you would handle all your other files.

*Unless of course you're one of those people who only ever used your computer for gaming, in which case you may not have a reference level as to what real digital ownership entails.

How you acquire a game doesn't matter. It can be through an ad-ridden, proprietary awful service as long as it can meet the above criteria it is DRM-free.

I hope all of you are aware that it is 100% legal for Valve to discontinue Steam right now, and you wouldn't have the right to get your money back.

I love it. Lol.

I love it to see you all to say: "Steam is not a DRM", "Steam is full DRM" and "my games are not on GOG".

I can understand you, thats you want your games on GOG, but you don't get all titles on GOG.

The best exemple here is Wolfenstein the New Order and his successor.

So why you don't get it on GOG? The reason is the publisher and his legal department, who can not read the German law correctly and understand.

So for germans Bethesda put in Wolfenstein: The new Order and Wolfenstein: The Old Blood hardcore DRM in his games.
So whats they do?

1. They sell it as a Steam only game
2. They put a region look in his games (Germans can't activate the ROW version of this games. So germans CAN'T import the ROW Version of this games.

And the Poit 2 is DRM, yes. But not Steam put the DRM in this games, the publisher do it.
Ok Steam offers this possibility, but it is up to the publisher whether this is also used.

Rebellion goes a other way:

1. They sell it as a Steam only game
2. Germans can get a Gift for Sniper Elite, Sniper Elite: V2, Sniper Elite: Nazi Zombie Army and Sniper Elite: Nazi Zombie Army 2. So a German can activate and play the ROW version of this games.
3. Germans can't buy the ROW Versions in the german store, because the german LAW prohibits the sale or advertising of games include swastikas and other symbols of the Nazi germany.

Yes Rebellion use the DRM Mechanisms offering by Steam, too. But in a different way as it Bethesda does.

Then we have games on Steam thats use the VAC System from Steam for the MP Gameservers and we have games on Steam which have no DRM Mechanisms include.

So Steam self is not a DRM, but it's provide DRM Mechanisms for publisher and/or developer.
They can use it or not.
Steamworks is not a DRM, it's provide DRM Mechanisms.

That's Steam.

So you will never seen Wolfenstein: The new Order, Wolfenstein: The Old Blood, Sniper Elite: Nazi Zombie Army and Sniper Elite: Nazi Zombie Army 2 on GOG.

What can I as a player do about it? Don't buy this games as exemple from Bethesda if you don't like the region look DRM.
If you don't like DRM generally, don't buy games that includes DRM.

For me as exemple: I don't buy games from Bethesda. I boycott this publisher.

Topic backup: Yes i can Backup all my Steamgames without the Steam client.
I can copy with cp my Steamgames folder on a second Harddisk and back on a new if i needed.
You must copy only the SteamApps folder, because in this folder are all game files.

If you want delete games from your Harddisk to save space, but you will play this games again you can use the backup without a new download of this game.

You need only a Update of this game, should a newer version be available.

The only thing you have to be afraid from Steam is having your account banned permanently but in order that to happen you have to do something extremely bad like using BOT's for cheating or marketing items - buying and selling at higher prices or try to sell your steam account in ebay etc.

If your Steam account itself is disabled, you won't be able to login to your Steam account, and you can't access any of your products bought on Steam*, including chat, inventory, cloud saves etc. You cannot even buy new games to add to your library!!! Steam TOS is very strict , if you violate Steam TOS you get banned without a warning and without a reason why you got banned. As I said before this only tends to happen in serious cases!!!

(*Some games on Steam can actually be launched without Steam, such as Eve Online, so you'd be able to play those normally. However, you wouldn't be able to log into your account to redownload the games, and I'm not sure whether you'd still legally have the right to play them or not.)

If you're banned by VAC for cheating in a VAC-enabled game, you won't be able to play some of your games' multiplayer modes. Which games are affected depends on what game you were banned in.

If you're banned from a forum on the Steam discussions system, nothing happens except that you can no longer post in the affected boards.

Quoting: wolfyrionThe only thing you have to be afraid from Steam is having your account banned permanently but in order that to happen you have to do something extremely bad like using BOT's for cheating or marketing items - buying and selling at higher prices or try to sell your steam account in ebay etc.

If your Steam account itself is disabled, you won't be able to login to your Steam account, and you can't access any of your products bought on Steam*, including chat, inventory, cloud saves etc. You cannot even buy new games to add to your library!!! Steam TOS is very strict , if you violate Steam TOS you get banned without a warning and without a reason why you got banned. As I said before this only tends to happen in serious cases!!!

Yes. And this I call a massive restriction of my rights. I do not buy anything, I only get a revocable permit to use something as long as they like. Exactly this is the reason why I don't (ever) have a steam acount. The comparison Hamish made with the candy from the drug dealer is spot on.
Yes, it might have drawbacks for me (unavailable games). I can live with that - I value my principles higher than avidity for specific games. I don't only say I dislike monopolies. I try to do something against.

Quote(*Some games on Steam can actually be launched without Steam, such as Eve Online, so you'd be able to play those normally. However, you wouldn't be able to log into your account to redownload the games, and I'm not sure whether you'd still legally have the right to play them or not.)

The last time I checked you are not allowed to play without steam. So legally (manually) copying a game out of its steam folder and install/play somewhere else would probably be a violation of the DMCA.....

timeo Danaos et dona ferentes

Pit (playing games on, and exclusively using Linux since more than 20 years)

Quoting: wolfyrionf) Without Steam Linux Gaming wouldn't exist!!!

That is in fact not true. There were games before Steam. What about ported titles like Gorky 17? Or for example X2? They existed long before there was a Steam-client for Linux. With that argumentation you ignore complete that DRM is also some kind of decision made by customers and not only companies. Supporting / buying those titles give them more feedback doing that one right and the customer has no problem with that at all. Your decision is not only for you because your purchase is also a voting.

Look my friends ,we are not gonna live forever in this planet unless some of you are immortals and planning to do so ? :P

Atm I am enjoying whatever games I can play on steam or not steam, as long as they are playable on Linux.

Lets say tomorrow Alien Isolation is gonna get released on Linux and is not on GOG or anywhere else - just on Steam...

For me is something that I waited for a long time and is gonna happen tomorrow....

So you suggest to me :

DONT PLAY THAT GAME BECAUSE IS ON STEAM!!! MONOPOLY!!!! DRM!!!! PLAY SOMETHING ELSE!!! YOU SUPPORT STEAM, DONT PURCHASE!!! YOU VOTE FOR THEM !!!!

Well I am sorry to say that but I am gonna play and enjoy the game - get my jump scares , laugh a lot about myself and have a lot of fun kicking some Alien ass... ^_^

Cheers :D

Quoting: wolfyrionLook my friends ,we are not gonna live forever in this planet unless some of you are immortals and planning to do so ? :P

Oh the arguments are not to be relativized. DRM won't stay just only on games or some other products used for entertainment. Proof for that are Adobe or also Microsoft. Even some kind of photosuite-software has to be activated today. Do you want your refrigerator buying everything from your shoppinglist and aftwards contacting your health insurance because you ordered way too much cheese? Okay that is some kind of a horror scenario, but the mechanism is a centralized service or intelligence. And just guess: It is only some kind of software today or tomorrow but based on your single decision als consumer for that. Steam is also based on that: Centralized management for your games combined only to your account and if this goes wrong no software is accessible for you. You have even no further right using the license you've bought. You just rent the software!

Quoting: wolfyrionAtm I am enjoying whatever games I can play on steam or not steam, as long as they are playable on Linux.

That is your right to do so. :)

Quoting: wolfyrionLets say tomorrow Alien Isolation is gonna get released on Linux and is not on GOG or anywhere else - just on Steam...

Then I won't buy that kind of software.

Quoting: wolfyrionFor me is something that I waited for a long time and is gonna happen tomorrow....

So you suggest to me :

DONT PLAY THAT GAME BECAUSE IS ON STEAM!!! MONOPOLY!!!! DRM!!!! PLAY SOMETHING ELSE!!! YOU SUPPORT STEAM, DONT PURCHASE!!! YOU VOTE FOR THEM !!!!

As you've even mentioned: That is just a suggestion combined with possibilities and thoughts. You could also just ignore that for now but it won't get better. Okay: You had your fun, but for what price at all? Freedom is something most valuable. But you could shut your's eyes (and ears) to that and relativize the problem to its non-existence for you. As mentioned above: Your right to do so and also my right to argument against that. :)

Quoting: wolfyrionThe only thing you have to be afraid from Steam is having your account banned permanently but in order that to happen you have to do something extremely bad like using BOT's for cheating or marketing items - buying and selling at higher prices or try to sell your steam account in ebay etc.

If your Steam account itself is disabled, you won't be able to login to your Steam account, and you can't access any of your products bought on Steam*, including chat, inventory, cloud saves etc. You cannot even buy new games to add to your library!!! Steam TOS is very strict , if you violate Steam TOS you get banned without a warning and without a reason why you got banned. As I said before this only tends to happen in serious cases!!!

(*Some games on Steam can actually be launched without Steam, such as Eve Online, so you'd be able to play those normally. However, you wouldn't be able to log into your account to redownload the games, and I'm not sure whether you'd still legally have the right to play them or not.)

If you're banned by VAC for cheating in a VAC-enabled game, you won't be able to play some of your games' multiplayer modes. Which games are affected depends on what game you were banned in.

If you're banned from a forum on the Steam discussions system, nothing happens except that you can no longer post in the affected boards.

That's not entirely true. (Maybe you shouldn't have just copied the first hit google gives you :P ) A couple of years ago Steam changed the rules so that now when you get banned you still have access to all your games. Developers can ban you from their game's multiplayer, and if your account is banned you can't make purchases, redeem keys, or trade, but you don't lose your whole library like you imply.
Valve has also claimed that should Steam go under they'll change some setting so people will retain access to their games. I'm not sure I'm convinced by that, Steam doesn't hold the rights to all games they sell, they can't just switch off the DRM on somebody else's game.

Still, I do use Steam, and I think they've done good things for Linux. I also use GOG, because they do good things for DRM-free games. I'm always torn when a game releases on both. If it's a good game I often double-dip, get it on GOG to put it on a harddrive as backup, and play it on Steam for the save backups and the friends list and those things.

GOG buyer only here, (with rare cases of Humble Bundle), I don't like the thought that I have to rely on someone else to play a game (unless it's online or an MMO). I don't hate Steam but I refuse to buy from it no matter which and how many Linux games they offer, simply because it's more of a renting service and I don't like that, the only ones I make an exception for are the known DRM-Free ones that I can't find on GOG.

Quoting Wolfyrion "Without Steam Linux Gaming wouldn't exist!!!" - I agree to a certain point, Linux gaming did exist before Valve stepped in but it was Humble Bundle that lit the spark with gaming in Linux. (from my point of view) Valve then made the push and brought Linux gaming to where it is now, would we have the same amount of Linux games if Valve didn't make a native Linux client? Probably not, the Steam-Runtime was also a good idea as it gave devs a point of focus during development.