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Title: Linux in office
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Purple Pudding 5 Aug 2016
What do you think of passing from Windows & proprietary software to Linux distros & mostly opensource software for normal office work? Is it possible? Do you know if it had been done before (any example?)?

I'm not thinking only to "from Microsoft Office to Libreoffice" but also a change of OS. What distro would be best? A rolling release distro is a great idea (no reinstallations) or a terrible idea (possible instability)?

Probably old Windows XP computers would be the majority... Keep in mind that pcs will be old and people slow to learn and Linux ignorant-hater, thinking that "all works" and a change is unnecesssary.

The change would be done in a "public" service of a city municipality... It's not a big city too.

I hope you have understood and many thanks to any answers!

Happy Holiday!

PP
Samsai 5 Aug 2016
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Over the past couple of years I've done a big chunk of my school work (and the article/benchmark stuff I've done on this website) in LibreOffice and I'd say it's powerful enough. My guess would be that Microsoft .doc compatibility might be the biggest issue to run into, though LibreOffice should be able to handle even those files for the most part. Note that I'm no Office power user by any means so my opinion might not carry that much weight in the real world of office work.

As for the operating system, I'd probably go for something super stable instead of going rolling and risking some machines suddenly borking, especially if the systems will be used by ex-WinXP users. Something like Debian with LXDE or Xfce. You'd probably also want to modify the desktop environment so that the panel is at the bottom of the screen to make sure it kinda works like Windows.
tuubi 5 Aug 2016
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I agree with Samsai on the distro choice. You'll want something that takes minimal maintenance and is pretty much quaranteed to work after an update. Bells and whistles are not a priority, but a good and relatively slick out-of-the-box desktop experience is a definite plus.

Our office runs Mint Xfce, so we have a wide selection of software available thanks to the widely supported Ubuntu base and the PPA system, with a very usable, if mostly traditional desktop. Since version 17, Mint releases always build on whatever happens to be the latest Ubuntu LTS, so updates aren't likely to ever break anything, while the hardware enablement stack gives us recent enough drivers/kernels. If you were thinking of converting a larger corporation or city, a commercial distribution that offers paid support would possibly be a better choice, but in your case probably not. You could even argue that for a small office, the best distro is whatever your IT guy is most familiar with.

About the feasibility of such a conversion project, it's pretty much guaranteed to be an excercise in frustration (if not futility) if your users are already dead set against any change in their work flow. We've been running our little office on Linux and nothing but open source software for more than a decade, but that doesn't really mean much as we were already Linux users before we even thought of starting the business. Also, our needs and expectations aren't likely to be at all similar to those of a small town municipal office...

Maybe you could start the process by switching over only a part of the office, starting with users who are open to it? Just make sure you've got the transition planned and tested to the last detail before you do anything at all. First impressions are important.
f145 5 Aug 2016
Before you do anything at all I would suggest that you first figure out what software they use and what their daily tasks really are. How are their workflow? Then you spin up your decided linuxdesktop and try replicate what they do. Is it possible for them to do their tasks just as easy as before and on time? Do all the printers work as expected? Etc. Try to locate as many issues as you can and document your process solving them if any before going any further.
Then roll it out to a percentage of the users (maybe 20/30%) and in the whole process try involve and listen carefully to what they have to say. You will probably run into issues you had not thought about. Try gathering as much feedback as you can in the experimental period. Work out any prioritized issue and only when ready start rolling out to more and more users where you then fix any issue as you go.
And if you happen to run into any bug of any scale then please - PLEASE - file a bugreport so it has the possibility to get fixed for the future!
Maybe the whole process will go buttersmooth without any big issues at all and everyone will be superexited, but any large change to a business can go opposite as well. Doable? Yes of course! Just do it in small steps, and listen carefully to the users needs, and you'll very likely be perfectly fine!

As choice of distro I would suggest Ubuntu (which is based on Debian) with the MATE desktop. It should be familiar to use and it's "Software Boutique" and "MATE Tweak" is a real winner. The latter let's you supersimple redefine the desktop experience from a dropdown-menu. I'm sure that will be appreciated!

Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hCXwmKg4VU
Get it: https://ubuntu-mate.org/

Whatever you decide to use, it should probably be a LTS release of some sort as it is much more manageable for a business.
manero666 6 Aug 2016
Here you can find some examples where Linux is used daily:

[50 Places Linux is Running That You Might Not Expect](http://www.comparebusinessproducts.com/fyi/50-places-linux-running-you-might-not-expect)

plus

[Italian Parliament to Perform Major Switch from Windows to Linux (2007)](http://news.softpedia.com/news/Italian-Parliament-to-Perform-Major-Switch-from-Windows-to-Linux-59775.shtml)
[Russian Government Mandates Shift from Microsoft to Linux by 2015](http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/Russian-Government-Mandates-Shift-from-Microsoft-to-Linux-by-2015-792623)

As already said it would be wise to ask who's interested in using it and then set up some PCs for them.
Probably the Linux PCs will run faster and have way less hassle to deal with (such as antivirus, auto-updates, useless waste of resources..), at the end you may have people asking you to change their OS to Linux!
On the other side you can install the same software that you have on the Linux machines, like LibreOffice, same browser, etc.. so that the switch would be easier.

I won't choose a rolling release because I don't think you need to always have the latest and greatest kernel, software, drivers and so on..

In my opinion Debian, *ubuntu or Linux Mint are the way to go (I will skip Ubuntu because Unity is too 'love it or hate it' in my opinion).
The fact that Debian is criticized for the very slow updates can be a huge PRO for your situation, where you may not want to upgrade too often (like with a rolling distro).

As for DE I suggest a lightweight one such as Xfce, Mate or Lxde, you can also think about a WM-only setup with OpenBox, Enlightment or JWM that are even more lightweight.

As for the set-up I think that panel on top + dock on bottom + a good wallpaper is the best way to go!
[something like this](https://manerosss.wordpress.com/2016/04/22/pc4/#jp-carousel-385) for example, where the most common applications are on the dock ready to be launched with a click, instead of going through a menu and sub-menu.
wojtek88 6 Aug 2016
First of all, I agree with @Samsai and @tuubi regarding distro - the most important thing should be stable distro choice and You should have a distro that does not crash after updates (@f145 I'm not sure Ubuntu is a great example here...).
Regarding Libre Office I'm here with Samsai - if you don't care about legacy documents (written in MS Office) layout, Libre Office should fit standard user needs.
Quoting: Purple PuddingThe change would be done in a "public" service of a city municipality... It's not a big city too.
Regarding this (most important) part - you need to be perfectly sure, that there is no legacy, Windows only, irreplaceable software, that someone from the team uses.
When my girlfriend worked in a polish municipality, there was a software for ID documents management, and it was written in C# with WinForms (this information I know, because once she did a printscreen with stacktrace when software crashed :D )
Such a software is very often irreplaceable and I wouldn't try to permanently move it to Wine, because even if you test it hard, it's possible that one particular, very specific part of the software won't work and you'll have serious problem. However, for such a person there is a workaround, like Windows XP run in VirtualBox, only for this software.

If you're sure that nobody is using windows-only software, that has no substitute in Linux and the only thing that is necessary for team members is stable software, that allows them to edit some spreadsheets, write documents and use web-based software, then you're good. If for some reason they do other stuff, like graphic/music/video edit, programming etc. they will also be able to use various great software. However, not necessarily their favorite one.

Personally, I am a Java programmer, who worked 3 years on Linux on computer at work, and now for 1 year I am forced by the employer to use Windows (no particular reason, just received email with something like "Please install Windows on your machine. That's an order."). So I am in reverted position, than the team that you are about to force to change OS. I see no benefit of Windows, I use no Windows-only software at work and I am not happy. But it's worth to keep in mind that they may not be happy because of Linux.
However, having machines running Windows XP this times is pointless and risky, so switching to Linux is a great idea at least from security point of view.
Ne0 13 Oct 2016
Here is [A scathing review on Microsoft](https://anon.to/?https://blogs.sap.com/2015/09/10/platform-dependablity-trust/) I wrote, before my company launched Linux as a Primary OS. Now, I am a proud user of RHEL T450, & no shitty Microsoft device for me :)

As for the distro, it depends on the work. For Game production/3D modelling/Animation/artwork, I would recommend an Ubuntu variation. For other work, like web development, RHEL/Centos or SLES/OpenSUSE would be better.

For replacing an old Windows XP, I would recomend using XFCE or LXDE as the Desktop Environment, maybe even customize it to look like Windows XP.

ageres 14 Oct 2016
Quoting: GuestJust a thought, considering that they're currently running Win XP suggests to me that they're running very old hardware. Personally I've found anything newer than the old Ubuntu 10.04 release and derivatives to be bloated even with XFCE, Mate and LXle and your old P4 slows to a crawl.
I have 10-12 years old computers at my work with 512 MB RAM, and Lubuntu works fine on them. I used to have 32-bit verison there, but this summer I installed Lubuntu 16.04 64-bit, and it runs ok too. About 120-140 MB is consumed by the system.
Mountain Man 14 Oct 2016
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As far as distros are concerned, your number one consideration in the business environment is stability, so I'd stay away from any kind of rolling release. A long-term service release would be ideal since those are generally supported for several years at a stretch. But keep in mind, too, that pretty much every Linux distro allows "in place" upgrades, so you shouldn't ever have to reinstall Linux when the next update comes out.

On a related note, I'd love it if colleges and universities adopted LibreOffice as a standard. It makes financial sense because any student can get it for free, and it makes infrastructural sense because it's 100% cross platform, so if a student creates a presentation on his Linux computer, he won't have to concern himself if the classroom system happens to be Windows or Mac.
wolfyrion 14 Oct 2016
As a Freelancer IT of over 20+ Companies in my Country is simply impossible to turn all the companies that I support to Linux for the following main reasons:

1. Caseware - Audit/Accounting software that is not running in Linux
2. Office - Excel - the formulas that are using in excel is so complicated that none open source office suite software can handle them
3. Outlook they just simply cant work without it.
4. Custom software that are only running in Windows so no way to go with Linux (they dont even run in Windows 10)
5. Active Directory / Windows Server/ SQL Software like SAP Business One

So far I have 0 companies running in Full Linux environment except me :P
Guppy 14 Oct 2016
If you must use outlook ( and apparently manages everywhere think that it's the golden standard so you do ), then the web client is passable ( outlook.office.com ).

I've been using Linux exclusively for work for 10+ years and I am never going back, how people get any work done with that sorry excuse for a terminal is beyond me :|
Avehicle7887 14 Oct 2016
As a PC tech in our company I'm the only one that actually uses and promotes Linux and while most of the tools I use are open source and cross platform I cannot see the company using Linux full time as their daily OS for various reasons:

- Most of the mobile repair section relies on Windows-based software
- The company's job sheet and invoice system is Windows only
- Outlook
- Good as our staff is, Linux is totally alien to them and they would require some training

With that said, without Linux my job would be much harder as I use Parted Magic from USB 90% the time at work. My Windows desktop PC at work is used only for when I need to extract product keys and backups from failing HDDs.
Colombo 14 Oct 2016
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Feda: What you mean that there is no replacement for outlook?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_email_clients
MaCroX95 15 Oct 2016
Quoting: Avehicle7887As a PC tech in our company I'm the only one that actually uses and promotes Linux and while most of the tools I use are open source and cross platform I cannot see the company using Linux full time as their daily OS for various reasons:

- Most of the mobile repair section relies on Windows-based software
- The company's job sheet and invoice system is Windows only
- Outlook
- Good as our staff is, Linux is totally alien to them and they would require some training

With that said, without Linux my job would be much harder as I use Parted Magic from USB 90% the time at work. My Windows desktop PC at work is used only for when I need to extract product keys and backups from failing HDDs.
Gogogo bring them to Linux :P You can do it, just make it familiar to them and let them learn some new software to replace proprietary counterparts, they should be happy after they get used to it!
Mountain Man 16 Oct 2016
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Quoting: GuestWhile Linux can't run all the business software having an e-mail client that can replace Outlook would open up a huge market for Linux.
That's simply a matter of weaning people off of Microsoft products, which I recognize may be an almost insurmountable challenge considering the near-monopoly Microsoft has established.

Quoting: GuestYou still can't beat Windows 7 for productivity, especially if you open a lot of files all the time. Jump lists are just amazing for that. I use Linux at home and I'm happy with it, but I would have a hard time getting work done as efficiently as I do now if I were to switch to Linux at work.
I suppose it depends on what you're used to. I haven't used Windows for any sort of productivity or business related tasks in well over a decade, so it would be very difficult for me to sit down with a Windows computer and get any kind of serious work done.

As someone pointed out earlier, there are dozens of large organizations that have successfully transitioned to Linux, so it's not impossible.
MaCroX95 16 Oct 2016
Quoting: Guest
Quoting: ColomboFeda: What you mean that there is no replacement for outlook?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_email_clients
There are plenty of e-mail clients but I'm not aware of a single one that integrates with exchange the way Outlook does. If you know one, please let me know I would love to try it.
I have users using the web client on the Linux laptops, but web client is not nearly as good as Outlook. And I hate using web clients for anything that desktop software should do.
What about thunderbird? It may not look very nice but it has awesome functionality, way over what I personally need and I'm more than happy with it. I'm not sure how does it compare functionality wise to Microsoft's proprietary counterpart but I'm pretty sure that all the things that an average Office computer user can do on Outlook can do on thunderbird on Windows and also on Linux :) I did use Outlook back in the day though...
tuubi 16 Oct 2016
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Quoting: GuestThere are plenty of e-mail clients but I'm not aware of a single one that integrates with exchange the way Outlook does. If you know one, please let me know I would love to try it.
Thunderbird with the Lightning calendar add-on and its Exchange provider should be worth a try. I know Gnome's Evolution also features Exchange integration, but I can't honestly recommend it based on my experiences with the software. YMMV of course.
Jahimself 17 Oct 2016
Thunderbird is a different from outlook in many aspect. But once you figure out how it works, it is in fact almost the same. But you have small option that add lisibility if you use this client for work. You can highligt important mail or other mail with colored markers. And if you want to go, to another plaform, like windows or mac, you just have to copy one folder, to get all your mails, settings, and contacts back. I had to set this up in some council buildings where they used to have windows + windows live mail, which can not even import or export correctly it's own format, and loose way too many files and contacts.

There are also many plugins for thunderbird which are very convenient. For exchange I never used it myself, but set it up for customers and never got called back for problem with it. There are also some themes using outlook or iMail interface.

And if you prefer outlook, and don't find what you expect, then stick with it :)
Nel 17 Oct 2016
Quoting: GuestIf you are running a Windows server and Exchange for your e-mail, lack of an e-mail client is a major deal breaker for switching any computers to Linux.
You got your both feet caught in a concrete block and you ask to people the best way to jump higher. The best way is to get rid of concrete block. So get rid of Windows Server and Exchange.
m2mg2 17 Oct 2016
Quoting: Guest
Quoting: ColomboFeda: What you mean that there is no replacement for outlook?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_email_clients
There are plenty of e-mail clients but I'm not aware of a single one that integrates with exchange the way Outlook does. If you know one, please let me know I would love to try it.
I have users using the web client on the Linux laptops, but web client is not nearly as good as Outlook. And I hate using web clients for anything that desktop software should do.
Thunderbird is pretty capable. I have it set up with an exchange account, address book works, calendar is functional (I have some shared calendars set up also). There are a couple of quirks, it isn't 100% functionality of Outlook but is pretty good. Have to use a couple of add-ons, ExQuilla for Microsoft Exchange ($10 per year individual, not sure about bulk licensing) and Exchange EWS Providor (free).
m2mg2 17 Oct 2016
Quoting: Guest
Quoting: tuubi
Quoting: GuestThere are plenty of e-mail clients but I'm not aware of a single one that integrates with exchange the way Outlook does. If you know one, please let me know I would love to try it.
Thunderbird with the Lightning calendar add-on and its Exchange provider should be worth a try. I know Gnome's Evolution also features Exchange integration, but I can't honestly recommend it based on my experiences with the software. YMMV of course.
I've tried both of those and was unable to figure out how to set them up to work with exchange. I did not like Thunderbird at all. Evolution is nice, I use it at home, but it doesn't work with exchange as far as I can tell.
you need the evolution-ews package (Exchange Web Services). I had it working but it was a long time ago and I don't remember how to set it up. Google should be of help there. There was some issue I had with it, don't remember exactly what it was. It may have been that the calendar does not work.

Neither Exquilla or Echange EWS Provider for Thunderbird are very intuitive for setup, but I believe both have moderately good instructions available from their perspective websites. I have both working and have been using them for ~2 years.
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