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Title: OS Upgrades: Why did Linux get it right?
slaapliedje 1 Dec 2017
A few weeks ago I decided to take the plunge and upgrade my work provided Macbook to High Sierra. After battling with it for a while (apparently the dual-boot I'd put on it with Linux was annoying macOS enough that it refused to install the update, then magically it did...) I got the update started and it had to reboot into this screen which only had a progress bar and an Apple. I think it may have shown a time, but it wasn't all that accurate. It seemed to take an hour or more before I could use it again.

Earlier tonight I saw Windows 10 had some updates.. well it had an update and it was a huge one (don't even know what it did). But much like the Mac, it had to be rebooted several times after first "Downloading ##%" then "Preparing to install ##%" (why are you always preparing, just go! Ludicrous speed!) then "Installing ##%" Then I rebooted.. and it had to install as it was going down, then as it was coming up, then it rebooted again (I didn't catch it this time because Grub is set to boot into Debian), when I rebooted Debian, it again said it had to apply updates, then got to the login screen... and again "Don't turn off your computer, configuring updates" or whatever...

All this while I'm unable to use my system, about an hour and a half..

Meanwhile, if I'm upgrading from a Debian or Ubuntu release to the next one... I can run a command and STILL use my system. Up until the point I reboot for new things to be used! And then the reboot takes less than a minute.

Okay, rant over. Seriously though, you'd think they'd borrow some ideas...
tuubi 1 Dec 2017
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Windows updates are horrible because Windows is a design disaster.

Mac updates are horrible because Apple thinks their users are stupid and can't be trusted to touch anything while updates are in progress. Basically they tell you to go play in your room so daddy can get his work done. (I wouldn't be surprised if their unix-like system would be technically able to do it more or less like Linux.)
crt0mega 1 Dec 2017
I'm on unstable, had a bunch (1GB+) of updates yesterday. Have been playing Prey (2017) while dpkg was installing new packages ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
slaapliedje 1 Dec 2017
Quoting: crt0megaI'm on unstable, had a bunch (1GB+) of updates yesterday. Have been playing Prey (2017) while dpkg was installing new packages ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Right? I'm on unstable as well, and with needsrestart you even get just about everything updated right away and it's smart enough not to restart gdm or whatever display manager you have so you aren't suddenly kicked out of your desktop.

I agree with Apple thinking their users are stupid. Some of them arguably are, otherwise they wouldn't try to defend things like soldered in memory. (Ha, I work with a guy who kept arguing that didn't matter, I still maintain it does.)
crt0mega 1 Dec 2017
Quoting: slaapliedjeRight? I'm on unstable as well, and with needsrestart you even get just about everything updated right away and it's smart enough not to restart gdm or whatever display manager you have so you aren't suddenly kicked out of your desktop.
Aye. That's what I call an user-friendly gaming experience :D

Quoting: slaapliedjeSome of them arguably are, otherwise they wouldn't try to defend things like soldered in memory. (Ha, I work with a guy who kept arguing that didn't matter, I still maintain it does.)
I can't imagine how he's defending bs like that. Sure, soldered-in memory might lower production costs for Apple but there's still a whole lotta of downsides for both, the consumer and even for Apple :huh:
sr_ls_boy 1 Dec 2017
I just had to reinstall Windows 10. Windows update would no longer update, for about 8 months now.
There were problems with a 2005 copy of MS c++ redistributable. So, some games wouldn't run, namely, the
new Homefront.

You would think a freshly installed copy of the latest version of Windows would be able to handle updating.
But that wasn't the case. This OS is so closed that the problem can't even be determined by Microsoft tech
support. No logs, no console output. Support simply quotes tips from other pages if you asked for assistance.

I use this OS as little as possible.
slaapliedje 1 Dec 2017
Quoting: crt0mega
Quoting: slaapliedjeRight? I'm on unstable as well, and with needsrestart you even get just about everything updated right away and it's smart enough not to restart gdm or whatever display manager you have so you aren't suddenly kicked out of your desktop.
Aye. That's what I call an user-friendly gaming experience :D

Quoting: slaapliedjeSome of them arguably are, otherwise they wouldn't try to defend things like soldered in memory. (Ha, I work with a guy who kept arguing that didn't matter, I still maintain it does.)
I can't imagine how he's defending bs like that. Sure, soldered-in memory might lower production costs for Apple but there's still a whole lotta of downsides for both, the consumer and even for Apple :huh:
The defense was "Who really upgrades the memory after you buy it?"
slaapliedje 1 Dec 2017
Quoting: sr_ls_boyI just had to reinstall Windows 10. Windows update would no longer update, for about 8 months now.
There were problems with a 2005 copy of MS c++ redistributable. So, some games wouldn't run, namely, the
new Homefront.

You would think a freshly installed copy of the latest version of Windows would be able to handle updating.
But that wasn't the case. This OS is so closed that the problem can't even be determined by Microsoft tech
support. No logs, no console output. Support simply quotes tips from other pages if you asked for assistance.

I use this OS as little as possible.
Seriously... I don't get how people say it's so user friendly either, and yet those same people say that Gnome-shell is hard. I don't know, I use the same method of launching things, press 'meta' key, type description and/or name and it pops up suggestions, click or select with arrows/return and done. Works on both.

macOS I have to hit Command+Space, but otherwise works in a similar fashion (except now it always seems to list something Siri can look up...)
beko 1 Dec 2017
Gnome-Shell is hard. I started to dig into programming extenstions for it. A nightmare, I tell you o0
crt0mega 1 Dec 2017
Quoting: slaapliedjeThe defense was "Who really upgrades the memory after you buy it?"
I do! :D
slaapliedje 1 Dec 2017
Quoting: bekoGnome-Shell is hard. I started to dig into programming extenstions for it. A nightmare, I tell you o0
Ha, what extension are you working on? Can't say I have tried coding for it, doesn't it use javascript/css for extensions?
beko 3 Dec 2017
Quoting: slaapliedjeHa, what extension are you working on? Can't say I have tried coding for it, doesn't it use javascript/css for extensions?
A …complex one o0 I need a Redmine extension that works (+ time tracking) and is not just a bunch of design fails. I finally started to make some real progress yesterday.

Yes it does use JS. GJS so be precise. Feels like JS _before_ the age of JQuery (and that's already long gone), when developers run in terror from JS.

Tipp: Do not bother until this stuff here is live and common: https://2017.guadec.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Philip-Chimento-GUADEC-2017-Modern-Javascript-in-GNOME.pdf

Mayhap we'll even get recent (or ANY) documentation. The current ones are from ~2012. I guess that happens when you put your money on a documentation system in MONO.

Seriously. I'm a Senior and programming GJS feels like beeing back in 2000.
Philadelphus 3 Dec 2017
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I actually just recently (within the last month) upgraded from Debian stable to testing just so I could get that sweet dopamine release that comes from typing "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" more often. :whistle:

Which reminds me, time to run it again! :D
s8as8a 3 Dec 2017
Quoting: PhiladelphusI actually just recently (within the last month) upgraded from Debian stable to testing just so I could get that sweet dopamine release that comes from typing "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" more often. :whistle:

Which reminds me, time to run it again! :D
Lay off the drugs, man! :P
Ketil 3 Dec 2017
I recently upgrades fedora from 25 to 26. It took close to two hours, they required reboot into a special environment, and they had disabled login. I decided then that I would switch to ubuntu or arch rather than upgrade to fedora 27.
beko 3 Dec 2017
Quoting: KetilI recently upgrades fedora from 25 to 26. It took close to two hours, they required reboot into a special environment, and they had disabled login. I decided then that I would switch to ubuntu or arch rather than upgrade to fedora 27.
Odd. I run an upgrade from 25 to 27. That required said rebooot too but I just went for a coffee and when I came back it was done. No idea what went wrong for you.
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