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PSU fried, need new rig
barotto commented on 18 October 2019 at 5:27 pm UTC

ShmerlNavi situation is a bit rough. AMD are fighting some bugs like this still: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=111481

Yep, I'm suffering from that issue, and also this one: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=111482

The first one is clearly a showstopper, the system is unusable.

If you want a stable PC stick to nvidia, at least for a while.

Shmerl commented on 18 October 2019 at 5:31 pm UTC

barottoThe first one is clearly a showstopper, the system is unusable.

Not really. For firefox, you can use AMD_DEBUG=nodma, and sensors hang can be avoided by not querying them concurrently for now (i.e. not more than one sensor indicator used at the same time). So with some tweaks, the system is quite stable for me. Still annoying that you need workarounds of course. But eventually AMD will iron those out as well.

I wouldn't stick to Nvidia for anything. If you want something more stable than Navi for now, then may be get Vega or Polaris card. But as I said, those Navi issues can be dealt with in the interim.

tuubi commented on 18 October 2019 at 5:56 pm UTC

Pangaea
tuubi
PangaeaAbout cooler: Currently I have a Noctua NH-U9B, which contained equipment for both Intel and AMD CPUs. But I suppose it wouldn't be possible to fit it on an AM4 Ryzen? It's pretty good, so it almost feels like a sideways move to fork out for the giant NH-D15.

You can request a free AM4 mounting kit for your Noctua using this form. I did this recently to fit my older NH-U14S on my new Ryzen 3700x and the process was quick and painless.

EDIT: I chose the Asus Prime X470-Pro motherboard, and it seems to work fine. No PCIe 4.0 support but I'm fine with that.

Thanks a lot! I had no idea about this. Will definitely take up that if I buy. Would save a decent chunk of money. Sounds like there will be a solid delay since I need to have a receipt for an AM4 CPU or mother board first, but still. It's a great option.
I think I received the kit less than a week after submitting my request with pics of the two receipts. Took a couple of days more for the CPU itself to arrive, so no problems there. There's also the boxed cooler that comes with the 3700x. It's no Noctua, but I hear it is really quite decent so that's an option as well. If you're not allergic to the ridiculous RGB nonsense on the fan that is.

For a new chassis I can heartily recommend the Fractal Design Define R series for their build quality and silence, but they're not the cheapest option, and they're quite big. The smaller and cheaper Define C isn't that bad either, we've got a bunch of those at work. Might have a harder time fitting all your storage and/or a huge GPU though.

Pangaea commented on 18 October 2019 at 8:21 pm UTC

Cheers. The Phanteks is actually on offer right now (though only the black/transparent one). Seems like there are many excellent chassis out there. It's more a matter about price. Most likely everything is better than the giant Chieftec I bought some 15 years ago

Good point about the stock cooler. That's an option if it takes too long. Shipping is usually very swift here, so as long as it's in stock I may actually get it the next day. Kinda nuts.

Those bugs are concerning though. It's essentially a show-stopper, and it's been (almost) two months since it was reported there, and AMD still isn't on top of it? For such a 'big' card for their sales and reputation. That's a big problem. Is Linux still too small of a market for them to care (enough) about it?

Don't exactly want to blow ~1500 EUR/USD on a new rig and then not even be able to safely browse the internet. That's ridiculous.

Shmerl commented on 18 October 2019 at 8:30 pm UTC

They are actively working on it, but that sdma bug is quite a sneaky one. It's hard to reproduce. Likely some race condition, and fixing such bug is always quite exhausting. So hopefully it's not a lack of resources problem, but simply a really hard bug to fix.

barotto commented on 19 October 2019 at 10:56 am UTC

ShmerlThey are actively working on it, but that sdma bug is quite a sneaky one. It's hard to reproduce. Likely some race condition, and fixing such bug is always quite exhausting. So hopefully it's not a lack of resources problem, but simply a really hard bug to fix.
Yeah, I know a couple of things about debugging and how hard it can be for multithreaded software.

Unfortunately the fact of the matter is current AMD cards are not stable enough for poor man's workstations. Also, given the bleeding edge nature of this stuff, you'd be better off using rolling release distributions, even if you don't like them or think they are not really suitable for workstation use.
Or at the very least you should be prepared to tinker with your system at a very low level, routinely installing self compiled kernels and gfx drivers, or packages from external PPAs (while hoping they'll not break something else), and ultimately spending a considerable amount of time trying to fix bugs. I'd rather spend that time playing videogames.

I'll test the nodma trick on my Ubuntu 19.10 and see if it solves anything but, aside from the excessive power draw, I've already noticed gfx glitches in at least one program that are not present in the Windows version nor in my other Ubuntu workstation with Nvidia hw.

PangaeaGood point about the stock cooler.
The stock cooler should be fine, test it and see how it does for you in terms of noise.

Just don't spend ridiculous amount of money on some ginormous AIO, as they are completely overkill.

I've been testing my 3900X with the be quiet dark rock 4 (non pro). I have comparable temperatures as people with very expensive 360s, while the noise is absolutely acceptable at 1300rpm at full load.

Pangaea commented on 19 October 2019 at 4:10 pm UTC

barottoUnfortunately the fact of the matter is current AMD cards are not stable enough for poor man's workstations. Also, given the bleeding edge nature of this stuff, you'd be better off using rolling release distributions, even if you don't like them or think they are not really suitable for workstation use.
Or at the very least you should be prepared to tinker with your system at a very low level, routinely installing self compiled kernels and gfx drivers, or packages from external PPAs (while hoping they'll not break something else), and ultimately spending a considerable amount of time trying to fix bugs. I'd rather spend that time playing videogames.

Have to say I was really close to pulling the trigger yesterday, with this lot: https://www.komplett.no/wishlist/shared/0f8bd746-68d4-4fe3-b93c-2065e1366688. It corresponds to about EUR 1300. Which is a lot of money. However, I'm simply not skilled or confident enough to fix problems by self-compiling kernels and stuff like that. And when spending that much money on a new computer, I just want to boot it up and start playing. With serious bugs like this still unresolved, it is better to wait, hope they fix the issues, and maybe some hardware is cheaper in a few months.

barottoThe stock cooler should be fine, test it and see how it does for you in terms of noise.

Just don't spend ridiculous amount of money on some ginormous AIO, as they are completely overkill.

I've been testing my 3900X with the be quiet dark rock 4 (non pro). I have comparable temperatures as people with very expensive 360s, while the noise is absolutely acceptable at 1300rpm at full load.

With "AIO" do you refer to the cooling solution here, or the computer as a whole? Apparently it stands for "all-in-one".

For cooling, I'm glad it's possible to re-use the Noctua I already have (NH-9UB SE2). It's not as big or efficient as the monstrous NH-15D, but it should more than suffice for the job (and I don't OC any more). It has two fans in push-pull (80 or 92mm I think). I'm sure that will do the job, and these big-ass coolers aren't cheap.

It's actually puzzling to read about chassis and cooling solutions now from reviews and forum threads. Currently I have zero chassis fans (disabled them years ago to reduce noise). Temperature is fine. And then I read about people with modern chassis with 10 or 16 120-140mm fans inside? WTF?! Do you have a nuclear reactor on fire in there?

stud68 commented on 19 October 2019 at 8:52 pm UTC

Or custom watercool. It is very quiet and satisfying.

https://ibb.co/5BKnK3B

Keeps the 5700 xt around 55c at load. And 3700x about the same.

tuubi commented on 19 October 2019 at 10:31 pm UTC

stud68Or custom watercool. It is very quiet and satisfying.

https://ibb.co/5BKnK3B

Keeps the 5700 xt around 55c at load. And 3700x about the same.
Just keep in mind that many liquid CPU coolers are actually noisier and often a lot more expensive than one of the larger Noctua air coolers, and the extra cooling power (which isn't a given either) goes to waste unless you're going for some serious overclocks. Just check a few reviews if you don't believe me.

Pangaea commented on 19 October 2019 at 11:46 pm UTC

There is also this. Which admittedly may be taking it a little too far.


Personally I'd be too concerned about leakage if I had a water cooled system. And from what I've heard it also requires quite a bit of maintenance, cleaning and the like.

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