Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: sudoerNo wonder it has a score of 6.6/10 in distrowatch.

Distrowatch is still a thing? Wow. I've never known anyone to seriously pay attention to it apart from people who wrongly thought their ranking meant something...

When most mainstream distros have a rating around 8+ there and Elementary has a 6.6, that shows something about the distro.

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Really looking good! I've always been impressed by the design of elementary OS 7.

And that is basically all it has to offer, the rest is unusable meh, not suited for anyone.
No wonder it has a score of 6.6/10 in distrowatch.

According to the Founder and CEO, Danielle Foré

I thought Cassidy James was the founder and that they had hired Fore few years later? https://cassidyjames.com/blog/farewell-elementary/ [External Link]

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Which uses Epic Online Spyware, which is also famous for its horrendous network code tied with constant disconnects, and possibly an extra Epic account so that Epic can broke for more exclusive titles from what I read? Looks like a hard pass to me.

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Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: sudoer

Do you love the Budgie desktop environment?

Nope, not a fan of its total black, hurts my eyes and looks like the monitor is burnt. Very very overrated imo.

Isn't that just the GTK theme?

No idea actually, Solus Budgie, the original is what I tested a few times in a VM and it always has been that coal black by default.

Like this:



taken from https://distrotest.net/Solus/ [External Link]

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Do you love the Budgie desktop environment?

Nope, not a fan of its total black, hurts my eyes and looks like the monitor is burnt. Very very overrated imo.

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: sudoerThings are very simple. If you use flatpaks and snaps you are killing the Desktop in the long run, which means you are killing the Personal Computer as we knew it for 40 years, and the dominant corporate Linux companies (Red Hat, Ubuntu) who only care for IoT, cloud computing, their $$$, have brainwashed you perfectly.

This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've read. Stop it.

Nothing ridiculous there and the rest of the post that explains it epigrammatically. Have you seen Canonical promoting the desktop (= the PC) like they did in 2004? Have you read an Ubuntu blog since 2017, when Shuttleworth announced Growing Ubuntu for cloud and IoT, rather than phone and convergence [External Link]? Everything is about IoT [External Link] and Edge Computing [External Link] and how Snaps are perfect for both.

2017:

The choice, ultimately, is to invest in the areas which are contributing to the growth of the company. Those are Ubuntu itself, for desktops, servers and VMs, our cloud infrastructure products (OpenStack and Kubernetes) our cloud operations capabilities (MAAS, LXD, Juju, BootStack), and our IoT story in snaps and Ubuntu Core.

2019:

18th April, 2019 [External Link]: Canonical today announced the release of Ubuntu 19.04, focused on open infrastructure deployments, the developer desktop, IoT, and cloud to edge software distribution.

Control decisions move to the edge with smart appliances based on Ubuntu, enabling edge-centric business models. Amazon published Greengrass for IoT on Ubuntu, as well as launching the AWS DeepRacer developer-centric model for autonomous ground vehicle community development, also running Ubuntu. The Edge X stack and a wide range of industrial control capabilities are now available for integration on Ubuntu based devices, with long term security updates. Multiple smart display solutions are also available as off-the-shelf components in the snap store.

Where does all the money flow from? Not from the desktop (PC), the desktop (PC) is getting irrelevant day by day, to be more precise, it's getting transformed by corporate Linux companies from the powerhouse running "the real thing" locally, and of which you had full control with GNU/Linux into a more and more closed, dumb terminal, which will communicate with the servers and the mainframe via a browser -it's happening already with Software as a Service [External Link] and Platform as a Service [External Link]- and if you endorse snap (and competitor's version flatpak) "that was originally released for cloud applications[2] but was later ported to work for Internet of Things devices[3][4] and desktop[5][6] applications"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_(software) you are just accelerating the transition without knowing it, that's the whole point. And what is so bad with the transition? That soon enough, in 10-20 years when your Internet would be down, you would have absolutely no power whatsoever with your black box connected to the powerful mainframe/server.

And what else is bad? From the IoT link:

There are a number of concerns about the risks in the growth of IoT technologies and products, especially in the areas of privacy and security, and consequently, industry and governmental moves to address these concerns have begun, including the development of international and local standards, guidelines, and regulatory frameworks.

We all now how good regulations vs. Big Companies work right? Sorry, too late for tears after that.

Quoting: SamsaiYou've got a pretty nice slippery slope there. The only thing your assertions are missing is causal linkage from one to the next, but I'm sure that it's not necessary when you can substitute it with hyperbole. :P

You are already on the bandwagon as I see by your own reasons, it's OK.

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The dilemma flatpak or snaps is illusional and misleading. Do you prefer playing games installed in your PC or streaming them from servers like Google Stadia? This is the question you have to ask yourself before it is too late.

Things are very simple. If you use flatpaks and snaps you are killing the Desktop in the long run, which means you are killing the Personal Computer as we knew it for 40 years, and the dominant corporate Linux companies (Red Hat, Ubuntu) who only care for IoT, cloud computing, their $$$, have brainwashed you perfectly.

A perfect example for the latter is reading OP going to a distro that updates itself biannualy! in order to... use flatpaks! there (snaps the other corporate equivalent)

Package managers following UNIX/GNU/Linux tradition were written with and respected the KISS principle, containers are adding unnecessary complexity with tons of issues and all this is being done by corporate companies, who are using fanbois of trademarks as a battering ram.

If you keep being lazy using the Windows/Apple paradigms, if your argument is "that's how Google with Android does it", if you keep playing their game with containers which were initially intended for servers (& immutable devices) but they found ways into "convincing" you -by youtube influencers and general ignorance, especially using Linux newcomers who are presented with Snap versions of Firefox and Chromium by default-, soon your PC will be just another console, I can see already those youtube influencers and probably OP in a year talking about how great Fedora Silverblue and the equivalents are, Shells (your Personal Computer in the Cloud) is already here.

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Quoting: michaldybczakManjaro unstable aka Arch stable, this was a whole another thing. The OS can break pretty fast and hard. There were quite damaging updates along the way. Fixes came in matter of hours, but I was too late, I updated to packages that were broken and that were crutial for the OS to function.

That's plain wrong, I've tested Manjaro in the past and its "unstable" is not Arch stable, Manjaro unstable contains Manjaro's own in-house developed unstable packages, their own kernels, modules, overlay packages there, so if things break for you in Manjaro unstable, this does not mean that the same is happening in Arch stable, nor that they are comparable.
Keep also in mind that in Arch it is your responsibility when to update, meaning you need to have at least a basic understanding of what is crucial for a system, before you press "y", so I assume this applies to Manjaro unstable too. Also, rolling distros tend to have mailing lists for their testing/unstable repos where "followers" of those repos are being warned about potential issues, so it's not wise for someone to use unstable/experimental/dev repos if he/she has not enough experience with Linux and doesn't read/participate in the mailing lists, only to form a false opinion that others will just take as-is and parrot.

On the other hand, Manjaro testing as you say has the benefit of getting the updates more in a form of OpenSUSE's TW snapshots, like small service packs, so most quirks are already known from Arch and mostly addressed by the time you get an update there. An example for that would be pacman's update to version 6.0, where all AUR helpers were broken due to a newer version of libalpm, which was addressed fast, but if you would be using Manjaro testing you wouldn't have heard of that issue, so in that sense you are right, Manjaro testing would probably be the best option.

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: scaineWell, the article says Arch, but I think it was EndeavourOS that Liam was on before he hopped on to Fedora. Indeed, it was his article about it that convinced me to make the same leap. I've been on Endeavour for about 2 or 3 months now. It's great - really enjoy it, and no breakages, whatsoever.

Specifically I used the EndeavourOS installer yes, but everything else on EndeavourOS is plain Arch, their extras are very minimal and all Arch updates come as normal.

There's no such thing as the "EndeavourOS installer", you were using EndeavourOS as it configures everything for you not in Arch's way, which is a DIY way, but as EndeavourOS devs pre-configured it for you, so you should alter your title accordingly.

Again, Arch is not EndeavourOS just because EndeavourOS gets Arch's updates.

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That problem sounds pipewire related to me. Been on Arch for 4+ years and it never failed me, then again I'm still using pulseaudio. KDE in Fedora is 2nd-class citizen, Xfce is 3rd-class citizen, etc, as you have already experienced. Also using Fedora is no different than using Ubuntu to me, each one pushes its own corp-agenda, both heavily GNOME with wayland, flatpaks, pipewire, snaps... sorry not wanting to participate in that and become a puppet shouting around how greater flatpaks are compared to snaps, and which one is the future, they both suck. If I was to choose a fixed, "corporate" release updating once a year I would probably use openSUSE Leap which from 15.3 is binary identical to SLE, meaning much more robust than Fedora and Ubuntu.

My prediction: see you in EndeavourOS (weren't you using and praising that?) in... 3 weeks? :grin:

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