Quoting: cRaZy-bisCuiTWhen I read about the issues Liam had I better move on.

Why the heck did they release a broken game? Are they EA?

But they didn't release it yet! This is a closed beta.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyRight now what we've got is a situation where there are huge differences in wealth and power. Most of it belongs to white males--although as Scott Adams once put it, those are other white males, not anyone you or I ever talk to. But going below the top people in control, there is a whole pyramid of difference from bottom to top, and who goes in what bit is systematically influenced by all the prejudice factors. The economic system divides us up into (mostly) white haves and black (mostly) have-nots, male have-mores and female have-lesses, and so on.

This is true, but notice that many of these issues, while completely valid, are pretty much optional and interchangeable. There's basically no nation, big or small, no matter how racially and religiously homogenous, where you can't find the whole scale of people living in the streets to a small elite owning pretty much everything there is to own. Proportions might vary but that's inevitable.

This is certainly true of Finland. While there is the expected amount of racism (obviously), in effect our nation is almost all white and minority races aren't in the financially most dire situation in our local "hierarchy". Gender equality is better than in some Western countries, but far from perfect. Homophobia still flourishes and so on.

Even smaller Middle Eastern, African or Asian nations, right down to tiny tribes on the Amazon, with extremely homogenous populations, show the same sort of multi-tier hierarchy. I guess that's just social animals being social animals. If only we could find a way to rise above it all.

The rest of your post is hard to disagree with, socialism bit included, as long as we remember that human beings aren't very suited for sharing equally and will botch it up eventually. We'll obviously have to find a middle ground of sorts somewhere much closer to the socialist ideals, but not something completely unrealistic that ignores and conflicts with human individuality. And all of this demands a starting point where people are somewhat content and happy with their lives, even at the bottom.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyThere. Now everyone on all sides can be mad at me! ;)

Well I'm not. How about you stop making sense if you're looking for a fight? :P

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Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: tuubiAd hominem is ad hominem,

That we agree on

Quoting: tuubibut I have better things to do than congratulate random internet strangers for the shape of the turd they deign to drop on a conversation.

How about you start practicing now ...

Sure. Let's do it together. You repeat to yourself: "There are good people who deserve my respect outside my bubble" and I'll meditate on the virtue of patience.

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: TheSyldatIn other words "only an abuser or a silent accomplice of an abuser gets mad at being called one"

Well, despite doing my best to defend your position (which I think I have a fair bit of empathy for), we'll never agree on that. Total nonsense. You walk up to any "innocent" person and accuse them of being an abusive aggressor out of the blue and you'll get a justifiably angry reaction.

Ad hominem is ad hominem, schoolyard pseudo-psychology doesn't change that. I have plenty of empathy for him and other people suffering abuse, but I have better things to do than congratulate random internet strangers for the shape of the turd they deign to drop on a conversation.

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Quoting: scaineWell, I rephrased it for a reason. There's a big, huge, gigantic difference between "being responsible" for the persecution of LGBT+ folks by my ancestors and simply recognising that it happened and that I'm part of the group that caused it.

It's most certainly not the "same difference" at all.

I'd go as far as adding the responsibility to actively speak and act against ongoing persecution by your peers. What we should not accept is guilt by association any more than we should recognise honour by association.

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Quoting: scaineAll I'm saying is that we all need a bit of introspection to make any real change on this. And, you know, since this won't happen as "humanity", we need CoCs.

100% agreed.

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Quoting: AppelsinUnless there's a story one was particularly taken with, I can't really see the appeal of "replay value". Assassins Creed is likely the modern gaming industry's definition of replay value. And the 80 hour playtime boils down to lots of busywork and "open world" chores. /sigh

Hey, I happen to love exploration and open-world "busywork", as long as there's some reward for it in the form of story content, no matter how tiny the snippets. I haven't played AC, but side quests and collectibles make similar games (I assume) like Mad Max and Tomb Raider infinitely better in my opinion. But that's not replay value in the literal sense, at least not for me; I almost never actually replay these games. I just do everything I can in a single playthrough, explore every bit of the game world and never touch the game again until maybe years later when I've forgotten most of it.

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: tuubiWill these people change if he calls me and the majority of the world's population "abusers"? Maybe it's a language barrier thing, but that's a serious accusation where I come from.

Sorry, I honestly don't see where Syldat has done so?

Quoting: TheSyldatYou just illustrated my previous points exactly with that very comment a knee jerk reaction that everybody have when they are told "if you're not LGBTQ then yes like it or not you're part of an overarching group that has been abuser" and somehow this is us classifying you as "an enemy" . No not an ennemy an abuser there is clear distinct difference but apparently you don't know that there is one ...

Thanks.

This relates to the point I was addressing earlier when I spoke about #metoo: you're NOT being accused of "being an abuser", you're being shown that you're part of a group which is commonly an abuser.

I still read that as him saying I'm an abuser if I'm not abused, and I don't see how you'd read it differently. You don't need to try to rationalise his prejudice.

Quoting: scaineAnd asking for leniency or distinction while still part of that group... keeps you (in a tiny way) as part of that group. Only WE (the group) can change this. This shouldn't be thrown back at the abused. Their opinion of the abuser group is utterly irrelevant too, except that it's typically used as a trigger for the abuser group to become EVEN MORE abusive.

That's kind of nonsense. I'm saying we should not automatically be judged as part of one group just because we're not part of another. There have to be shades between the extremes of black and white, or black and rainbow maybe. There are plenty of CIS-gendered people who actively work against inequality and injustice. They should clearly not be painted with the "abuser" brush. Notice that I say they, not I. This isn't "not all ____". I am not denying past or ongoing abuse and injustices.

I was a socially awkward, nerdy kid in the eighties and nineties, and naturally got bullied in school a lot. That makes me a different kind of abused (not comparable, I know, but bear with me). Does that mean everyone who wasn't bullied at school is responsible? This is another example of a cultural problem, but the problem is the culture, not every single member equally. Not everybody is guilty, but obviously everyone has the responsibility to recognize, reject, and strive to rectify those harmful elements in their cultures. And that should be enough to earn our respect. It's childish to think that not solving a problem is the same as causing it.

EDIT: I just realised I refer to Syldat with the male pronouns, but I have to admit I'm not quite clear if that's what they'd prefer. No offence intended if that's not the case. I think gendered pronouns are extremely silly and should be abolished, but that's neither here nor there.

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Quoting: scaineAgain, this isn't about Syldat, but about other people's reaction. Some of these people won't change.

Will these people change if he calls me and the majority of the world's population "abusers"? Maybe it's a language barrier thing, but that's a serious accusation where I come from. Does a gross reduction of the whole of humanity into the abusers and the abused (tribalism) somehow make things better? Because I think it does the opposite. Name calling and harmful stereotyping isn't going to stop name calling and harmful stereotyping.

Kind of ironic, frothing about "christian" values being the problem and then basically basing his argument on the concept of inherited sin. I don't hold every single modern-day Brit responsible for the atrocities committed in the name of the British empire, but somehow I am responsible for the deeds of every single human being ever who has abused someone for having a different gender identity or sexual preferences just because I'm not and could not be a member of the abused.

As Eike said before, I'm responsible for my deeds, and I'll accept some appropriate responsibility for the deeds of those who I can directly influence, but that's it. I can and do make an effort to treat everyone equally, but that has to extend to holding everyone to the same standard as well. Respect has to go both ways.

Syldat is free to tell me what I'm doing wrong, and if he wants an apology for the atrocities committed upon his community throughout human history, sure I'm game (even though apologies from third parties are meaningless). The reason I stopped responding to him is that I simply don't enjoy one-sided conversations with prejudiced and judgmental people.

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Quoting: TheSyldatAgain when I say you it's an all encompassing everyone who's not LGBTQ yes you don't know what it is like and what it feels like and whether you like it or not sometimes you do and say sucky things, we're not attacking you and if you want to not be yelled at anymore then simply just stop doing what you've been told is wrong. And no I won't stop because yes it is an US versus you situation where you are part of the group that has been the abuser for millenias on end.

Okay. I was about to reply to what you wrote before this, but if you're not even talking to me, I guess it's better if I let someone who is your enemy continue this conversation. A little hint though: Unless you can start respecting people until they prove they don't deserve it, you can't hope to be treated any better.

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