Quoting: gbudnyI saw many reports about issues with Proton.

You may want to check your sources, because the claims you're trying to perpetuate about it, whilst suggesting that you've never actually used it, don't stack up with reality.

Quoting: gbudnyI don't find playing games for Windows on Linux entertaining - it's boring to me.

But the OS it's made for is irrelevant to how the game plays...

Quoting: gbudnyWindows is better for these games, and above 90% of Windows users can confirm it - this operating system sells so well.

But why use Windows if you simply don't have to?

Quoting: gbudnyI click on my KVM or a remote control to use them, and I don't care about space in my apartment. I use one monitor to connect all old computers with the Geforce cards and Sound Blaster Live 5.1. I don't maintain operating systems on these computers. I install the NVidia drivers and later games for them - nothing more. I don't play multiplayer games, and I don't connect them to the internet.

Of course, keeping old computers functional sometimes could be challenging, but I like to keep them used. Users of the other operating systems and game consoles use them this way.

I'm glad you've got the space and enjoy them. My other half is the same on the consoles side of things. :smile:

Quoting: gbudnyI think long-term Windows users have fewer issues with Wine/Proton than people like me. I switched to Linux in 2004 after over a year of using it on my first computer.

I was not a long-term Windows user, nor a long-term MacOS user - I used a Commodore 64 for longer! It is NOT hard to use Proton.

Quoting: gbudnyI don't have to promote Microsoft because many users boot Windows when a game doesn't work well with Linux.

With all due respect, you often post to GamingOnLinux to tell people that they should use Windows instead of Proton, that people should use ancient unsupported distros to play older games, that you expect that a 2012 distro should be able to support games from 2055 as long as they don't use "Steam DRM" (and then requested that Liam and GOL users work to inform you about this), and that putting buggy broken unsupported old Linux-builds of games front-and-centre is preferable to just clicking to get a superior experience with a compatibility-tool that 99% of the time just-works - advice like this is what gives people a bad impression of modern-day Linux, and it sounds quite similar to the campaign that was implemented to destroy Linux netbooks. I'm sure that's not your intent, but that is how it comes across.

Quoting: gbudnyMicrosoft needs companies like CodeWeavers and Valve to get more money from Linux users and keep its position in the market.

But Microsoft isn't getting money from Valve and CodeWeavers for these projects, nor do they get paid by devs who make games on their OS. It's not like the console ecosystems, where fees are paid.

Quoting: gbudnyIt's good news for them when Linux users claim they only need games for Windows to run on them on Wine/Proton. Wine and Proton aren't Microsoft projects, but they help promote their technology among Linux users.

You're looking at it the wrong way - it primarily helps people who wish to leave an ecosystem that they don't wish to use anymore to transition smoothly to a new OS, and secondarily it just opens up more options for those of us who were already on Linux in the first place. As above with the Rabbit Phone example, people don't adopt technologies that they have to refactor their lives around.

Quoting: gbudnyI think it's far more important for Microsoft that Linux users have some doubts about all the work done by dead companies like Loki Software.

This feels like a real stretch into conspiracy territory - nobody is expressing any doubts about what past companies did, and I somehow doubt that companies that served a very tiny segment of a very tiny market have ever even been a blip on their radar. Let's not pretend that there was a golden utopia where we got all the AAAs before Proton came along, because that's simply not true.

Quoting: gbudnyI think about the open source libraries used in creating native games for Linux. This mistrust of Linux users to own companies is beneficial for Microsoft.

What mistrust? This sounds like it's being projected onto others where it simply doesn't exist.

Quoting: gbudnyOk.
I tried to install Medal of Honor on Wine from GOG. I can play the native version on my old computer, and I report bugs for OpenMOHAA, which added support for mods. It didn't work when I tried to run it, and after an hour of searching, I gave up on it. It was easier to use YouTube and see how this issue looks on Windows.

I was terrified because I was a Cedega subscriber in 2007. I had the same issue with Mohaa. Back then, I solved it after some time with some settings. It's disappointing how much Transgaming, CodeWeavers, and Valve invested in Wine, and Mohaa doesn't run after the installation.

That was a game officially supported by Transgaming, so it should have always worked since 2007.

You were talking about Proton and then swerved off here. You can't say "Well I couldn't make it work in a completely different tool!" to justify saying that people should use Windows to play Windows games and use ancient Linux distros and hardware instead of Proton. Wine on its own is not the same thing as Proton, and the means to use Proton outside of Steam has existed for some time.

Quoting: gbudnyYou can play it now on the old Linux distributions. I appreciate when Liam Dawe or Hamish Paul Wilson write articles about classic or indie games for Linux. In my opinion, it's important for me than games for Windows on Proton.

You said that to Liam Dawe himself. :wink:

Quoting: gbudnyI know users interested in the AAA titles on Proton could disagree with me - it's my preference when I play games.

And it's ours if we want to play something that would never be ported to Linux by anyone in a billion years or if we want to play older software where the native versions have been broken for years (I've got a couple of titles like that, from as recently as 2016 and 2018) without having to maintain ancient PCs, too. :wink:

Quoting: Liam DaweProton is easy and it works well.

I've got to admit, "Proton is hard to use!" is a new one on me. :tongue:

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Quoting: gbudnyI can say it's always easier to use Windows to run these games than Proton on Linux.

It's really not easier to use Windows. It takes just a couple of clicks to use Proton (or usually no clicks at all on the Steam Deck), then the game runs on Linux as if it's native because Proton translates calls to native ones, AND you don't have to suffer dealing with Windows. :grin:

Clicking two or three times is much more convenient and space-saving than having bunches of old computers, monitors, and KVMs, and needing to maintain them - certainly, people shouldn't be using the hardware you're recommending without recapping it all, and the vast majority don't have the tools or the experience to do that. They usually do know how to click a mouse a couple of times, though. :wink:

Quoting: gbudnyI know almost nothing about solving issues with games on Windows or Wine. That is probably a reason why Proton so popular among Linux users. They have more experience with systems created by Microsoft.

I don't have any experience with running games on Windows either (last time I did so before becoming a Linux-gamer in 2021 was running Jazz Jackrabbit 2 on Windows 95 back in 1998; Personally I moved over to MacOS in 2004 whilst waiting for Linux laptop support to mature, and that's not any sort of gaming platform), and yet I've had no difficulties whatsoever with Proton.

It's disingenuous to claim that Proton is popular for that reason (and it seems so unusual to promote Microsoft so much on a Linux-gaming site), when the reality is that it's purely because it's simple and elegant to use. It's the exact same reason that Rabbit Phones* failed and GSM phones gained mass-adoption - people will adopt the technology that fits into their life, not the one that demands that they rework their life around the technology.

*If you're not familiar with them, I'm not surprised! :tongue: Rabbit Phones [External Link] were mobile telephones that could only make outgoing calls, and which required the user to go out and drive to locations (often sponsored ones, like particular branches of McDonalds in big cities) that had compatible masts in order to make those calls, as long as it would work when you did so. They could not receive incoming calls nor send or receive text-messages. If you've never heard of them, that utter failure to be convenient to users is why - GSM decimated Rabbit the second it hit the scene.

Quoting: gbudnyI frequently can figure out what is wrong if a game doesn't works correctly on Linux. Doing similar things with Windows or Wine will be more tricky to me.
I don't want to learn these things. Playing games for Windows or with Wine is so boring to me.

What do you need to learn to click a mouse two or three times, exactly? :huh:

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Quoting: thelimeydragonCurrys, Lidl, Argos all had them last time I looked in December.

Thanks very much - I'll take a look the next time I'm by any of those! :smile: I certainly wouldn't've thought to check Lidl, though I suppose who could argue with a fresh pretzel and a Steam card? :grin:

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyHeh. I saw "vinyls" and I thought "What do old LP records have to do with gaming?" Then I followed the link and . . . oh.

Here, have this link [External Link] to make it better. :wink:

Of course, you don't see the actual game-shops inking deals to carry this stuff, oh no. :tongue:

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Quoting: PyreticOh my god, is this a country-wide thing? GAME shuffled into our Sports Direct too. In fact, there even was a GAME sign right next to the Sports Direct sign too until that also got taken down.

It is, yup. I don't think they even bothered to put them in Sports Direct where I am, but I know it's the case pretty much everywhere else. Also, as of the last few weeks, they no longer take trade-ins, so they're now basically just a Funko Pop! tat-bazaar inside a chain that a gamer simply wouldn't be likely to think they'd find a game store within. (I'm not sure what the House of Fraser group, who now owns GAME, was even thinking here - I assume they were equating all gamers to buyers of EA's FIFA-licensed games and assumed that people would understand putting a video game store inside a sports shop? With my taste in gaming, it certainly doesn't compute, though!)

So much for "Letting them buy their only competitor is fine because you can buy FIFA and Disney shovelware at Asda, so there's adequate competition in the marketplace.", eh? No specialist game-stores anywhere where I am (GAME drove the independents out of business long ago), and now I can't even buy physical download-cards for a digital service in either a games-shop or a supermarket. :tongue:

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Quoting: WYWSame, are you in Canada by chance?

As noted above, I'm in the UK. :smile:

Quoting: WYWI asked at Walmart and they told me I wouldn't be able to find any anywhere because they had all been pulled off the shelves to prevent "payment in gift card scams".

It makes zero sense because as you said every other digital store front has their gift cards readily available for purchase, EA, Ubisoft, Roblox, Fortnight, Apple, Google, Amazon, Netflix, Disney+, everything except Steam.

I briefly wondered the same about over here, but if watching tons of scambaiting videos has taught me anything, it's that the scammers don't really care too much what kind of card it is at the end of the day, so I agree that it doesn't make sense; They seem to ask for Apple and Google cards more than anything (making it all the more hilarious when the likes of Kitboga set up fake pages to make it look like they're redeeming cards on those sites :grin:), and nobody seems to have any trouble carrying those.

Quoting: WYWI have 2 theories about the real reason because it's clearly not to prevent scam payments.
1. Steam contains a lot of pornographic content and selling a Steam gift card to a minor is kind of the same as selling them a license to porn.

Roblox has that as one of its major problems (y'know, outside of exploiting child-labour to make megaprofits), and that's not exactly a secret to anybody, and there's also adult content on the platforms and services these outfits sell cards for, so I'm going to guess it's not that, somehow...

Quoting: WYW2. Valve is not a publicly traded company like all the other gift card sellers and doesn't conform to ESG as far as I know.

... But I do wonder if it's something along these lines, though!

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Quoting: nenorobomberman

Over that way [External Link] - most recent installment was released in September 2023. :wink:

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Quoting: finaldestFor UK retailers,

You can get steam PS5 and MS gift cards in GAME stores by purchasing at the till. You get a code printed on a till receipt for the value purchased.

Alas, I'm clearly not meant to find the bloody things - all of the local branches of GAME shut up shop ages ago, too. I don't think we've even got any of the ones shuffled off into a Sports Direct store. (I honestly don't think that GAME is long for this world, at this point, but that's another matter.)

Quoting: finaldestI have seen them in some of the supermarkets also at the checkouts.

I wish I could find them, hahaha! :tongue:

Quoting: HighballThat would be nice. My Sisters just buy me gift cards to Subway, the sandwich place. It really feels like a punishment at this point. If I got a Steam gift card I'd probably fall over in shock.

I think I would too, as I'm convinced that they're like Leprechauns or something. :wink:

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Quoting: EikeAvailable at about every second store here in Germany.

Lucky! Over here, you see cards for all of the consoles, then the Apple and Google mobile stores, and then a few cards to encourage children to go for microtransactions in titles like Minecraft and Roblox, but no Steam ones at all. :sad:

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Quoting: GetBeanedThen again, after Vampire Survivors (which I really enjoyed), nothing has really grabbed me in the same way. Halls of Torment was fun enough, but I just kept wondering why I didn't just go play VS instead. I'm yet to see a really big evolution with this genre.

The only other one that's really grabbed me is Brotato, which mixes things up by staying within a much more confined space than Vampire Survivors tends to go with. :smile:

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