Quoting: Purple Library GuyI don't think MS has the power to go too far afield in terms of device types, because there are just so many devices out there for which Windows is not a real option. So TV boxes, smart TVs, the overhyped Internet of Things, stereos, there are just so many little thingies nowadays with a computer in them, and no OEM is going to be willing to shell out for a useless Windows license for all of them, so the terms have to have some limitations on just what the Microsoft tax is going to be paid on. And since portable gaming devices never had Windows on them, they would not have been a viable thing for MS to charge a Microsoft tax on.

Yeah, I'm sure the limitations involve devices that can run Windows. MSFT would want to be in all the different spaces but unfortunately for MSFT (fortunately for everybody else) Windows just doesn't work everywhere. I don't think MSFT's lawyers are going to care if Windows was not viable for handhelds previously. If it is now, which it is, that's all that will matter to them. One thing you have to consider is MSFT doesn't do the volume licensing discounts for small companies. Just the big ones, the ones that are big enough to get volume hardware sales as well. And handheld Windows PC's have been around for decades. Even the Netbook sold 40 million units yearly until the iPad came a long and cannibalized all the sales, eliminating the netbook market almost entirely. It's always been possible to have mini hand held PCs and definitely was a thing until the iPad, it's just never been good enough to take gaming seriously until now. I'm glad you are optimistic about Lenovo's intentions, I'm happy to have my cynicism be wrong that's for sure. MSFT has always used the power of their purse or lawfare where it could and if there is a chance for MSFT to ensure Lenovo bends the knee they will. In my memory, MSFT has always been happy to set 10s of millions of dollars on fire rather then let another companies succeed without bending the knee. An Xbox handheld wont come out until the next generation, if MSFT doesn't keep it's OEM's in line, they will all jump to SteamOS, and once they find success with SteamOS, MSFT will lose the market entirely. I just don't think MSFT will let that happen, and I think they will either use the power of their purse or lawfare to ensure Lenovo and any others ship their devices with Windows. Vendor Lock'in is the hinge pin for Windows dominance on PC's. Without vendor lock'in Windows is dead.

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Quoting: sarmad

Quoting: Highball

Quoting: sarmadLenovo has a good history of supporting Linux with their Thinkpad laptops, so there is a good chance this is true. Fingers crossed.

This is actually what makes me think they wont be shipping SteamOS on their new handheld. When you buy one of the few Thinkpads with Ubuntu installed instead of Windows. Lenovo eats the cost on the MSFT Tax. MSFT still gets paid and still publishes it as a Windows sale. That money still gets reinvested into the Windows eco-system. In most cases, companies who buy the Linux supported Thinkpads are already paying for a Windows volume licensing deal and so it's not a big deal to Lenovo. It's the consumers that will ultimately cost Lenovo. Lenovo will need to pay the MSFT Tax for every handheld in order to keep their licensing deal with MSFT. They can charge the consumer or they can eat the cost themselves. Lenovo is huge and they can afford to eat the MSFT Tax on consumer Thinkpads because they aren't selling millions of them to consumers. They probably sell 1000 or 10000. Anytime I've been in the market for a new machine, when I check Lenovo, they are always sold out. Which leads me to believe they only sell a limited number of them to consumers. It's been several years since I have been in the market, so things could have changed significantly since then.

Really, if the new Legion Go is on par with the Steam Deck feature for feature, with more battery and better performance, why recommend a Steam Deck?! So Lenovo would be looking at 1 or 2 million in sales and that would also mean eating the MSFT Tax for 1 or 2 million devices. And of course MSFT is going straight to their share holders and say, "We sold 1 million Windows licenses for handhelds in FY 2025." I just don't see Lenovo eating the cost on 1 million Windows licenses. Maybe Lenovo is able to justify their new handheld unbound by the MSFT licensing agreement they have. That would be cool.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Hmmm.. this doesn't make a lot of sense. If Lenovo is selling their own hardware and aren't putting Windows on it, why would they have to pay Microsoft? Is Microsoft imposing some terms on OEMs that if you sell your hardware with Windows then you cannot sell the same hardware without it? I don't see how such a term can be legal in the first place. Do you have any sources for this?

This is their volume licensing agreement for an OEM. They do not have to install Windows on the machine, but they must sell a license for Windows with the machine. This is why it's commonly referred to as the MSFT Tax. I'd love to link you a MSFT OEM's contract with MSFT, but I doubt they post those for the public to read. I suppose it's fallen out of common knowledge, but almost thirty years ago there was more than just Windows and DOS. And in many cases you already owned a Windows license and didn't want to re-buy a second or third Windows license. If you told your sales rep to remove Windows from the purchase of your new machine they would tell you it wasn't possible. I heard in some cases for some OEM's, FreeDos was allowed. Now a days, the Windows price is just bundled as part of the machine itself's price unless you are buying from a boutique vendor. It's legal because the companies agree in order to get massive volume discounts on Windows. The machines from the big companies are sold on very thin margins. If an OEM doesn't take the volume licensing deal that means their machines will be more expensive than their competitors. If a buyer is buying a 2000 dollar workstation, an extra 100 dollars is probably not a big deal to the buyer. If buyer is buying a 400 or 500 dollar machine, even an 800 dollar machine, 100 dollars is very very noticeable. If you are a competing on price for government contracts (especially in 90's and early 2000's), especially you have to be competitive on price, at least here in America. Now big businesses and governments have volume licensing deals and are just prepaying for licenses. So these big PC companies really don't have the choice but to agree to the deal if they want to be competitive. If you have two laptops next to each other at a brick and motar store, same or similar specs, but one laptop is 100 dollars cheaper, guess which machine sells out first. Also, that means a company that's competing on price isn't going to put any engineering efforts towards a second or even third operating system. No drivers, no software, and no testings for anything but the Windows operating system. Holy crap, I just saw, custom building a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon will save you 140 dollars if you go with Linux instead of Windows Home. You can't even select Linux for a gaming laptop.

Try it, call a major PC manufacturer and tell the sales person that you don't need Windows and they can remove that fee from the price of the machine. Maybe it's changed, I doubt it. But I learned to not to pay the MSFT Tax 25+ years ago.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy...But, that contract may not have mentioned Steam-Deck-like things because the MS lawyers wouldn't have been aware of that possibility. So in the case of this thing, Lenovo could potentially build it without the MS tax applying.

I wonder this myself. This is what I was referring to when I said, "Maybe Lenovo is able to justify their new handheld unbound by the MSFT licensing agreement they have." But to be honest I really doubt the MSFT lawyers would have missed something. I mean, MSFT had tablets in the early 2000's, It's just nobody wanted them, at least, as consumers go. MSFT lawyers have been aware; new types and styles of un-PC like devices would crop up. The wording in their contracts are probably very vague enough for it to favor MSFT. Even if Lenovo thinks they have a carve out that they believe will allow them to sell handhelds without the MSFT Tax applied, MSFT doesn't heart Linux so much that they wouldn't resort to lawfare. If one company gets away with a carve out, all the companies are going to want a carve out. Whew! if that happens, almost thirty years of vendor lock'in will evaporate so fast. MSFT knows they can't allow that.

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Quoting: sarmadLenovo has a good history of supporting Linux with their Thinkpad laptops, so there is a good chance this is true. Fingers crossed.

This is actually what makes me think they wont be shipping SteamOS on their new handheld. When you buy one of the few Thinkpads with Ubuntu installed instead of Windows. Lenovo eats the cost on the MSFT Tax. MSFT still gets paid and still publishes it as a Windows sale. That money still gets reinvested into the Windows eco-system. In most cases, companies who buy the Linux supported Thinkpads are already paying for a Windows volume licensing deal and so it's not a big deal to Lenovo. It's the consumers that will ultimately cost Lenovo. Lenovo will need to pay the MSFT Tax for every handheld in order to keep their licensing deal with MSFT. They can charge the consumer or they can eat the cost themselves. Lenovo is huge and they can afford to eat the MSFT Tax on consumer Thinkpads because they aren't selling millions of them to consumers. They probably sell 1000 or 10000. Anytime I've been in the market for a new machine, when I check Lenovo, they are always sold out. Which leads me to believe they only sell a limited number of them to consumers. It's been several years since I have been in the market, so things could have changed significantly since then.

Really, if the new Legion Go is on par with the Steam Deck feature for feature, with more battery and better performance, why recommend a Steam Deck?! So Lenovo would be looking at 1 or 2 million in sales and that would also mean eating the MSFT Tax for 1 or 2 million devices. And of course MSFT is going straight to their share holders and say, "We sold 1 million Windows licenses for handhelds in FY 2025." I just don't see Lenovo eating the cost on 1 million Windows licenses. Maybe Lenovo is able to justify their new handheld unbound by the MSFT licensing agreement they have. That would be cool.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

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Quoting: _Mars

• Now Playable: VIDEO GAME.

Thank god. We finally got gaming on Linux.

100% of VIDEO GAME are playable on Linux. We made it boys.

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Quoting: MohandevirI made the same choice. Kubuntu 24.04. I was on Manjaro, but found out that "bleeding edge" KDE is a PITA. Switched back to Kubuntu and it's "outdated" libs and got a pretty great experience. The only thing I did was add kisak stable repo for my RX 6600 and I'm pretty happy with it. Everything else seems quite theoretical, to me, because it gets the job done with much less assle.

But "to each their own", they say...

I'm in the same boat. Though I prefer Gnome so I just go with Ubuntu. I do kisak for the Mesa drivers as well. Only other thing I do is add the mainline kernel. In the passed I would build and run the LinuxTKG kernel for some features that hadn't made it to the mainline yet. To my mind, it's better for a normie to go with a stable system and just pull in the bleeding edge pieces they need. I use my machine for work, so I really don't want to risk having to waste my time fixing a rolling release. To me that's the equivalent of getting a Windows forced update in the middle of working or one of those MacOS updates that take 30 minutes and your whole machine is unusable. I am looking forward to Pop_OS! though. Not sure if I'll switch all together or just pull in CosmicDE.

I probably would recommend Kubuntu as well for the Windows normie types.

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: Highball

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: GuestThe title led me to expect a rise in SteamOS Holo usage.
However, the data shows a -0.28% decrease.
Is this a mistake or am I interpreting it incorrectly?

It is correct. The point of the title is that the Steam Deck is what's still pushing the Linux number up.

While "SteamOS Holo 64bit" is the first OS on the Steam chart, we should not forget that the other 63%+ of the Linux Steam usage polled by comes from other distros.

Writing this because I think they deserve a mention too ;)

They are mentioned clearly in the article in the list. Don’t really get what you’re trying to say here. A title only tells so much, and focused on what is actually pushing the number.

I think he means, Steam Deck added a huge chunk. But pure desktop is growing as well. There was a point that Steam Deck was almost 50% of the Linux percentage. Steam Deck hasn't stopped selling well. I figure, with the continued growth and success of the Steam Deck, it's percentage declining means that more and more people are installing Linux to their gaming machines. I definitely haven't seen any trends of people switching from SteamOS on their Steam Deck.

Sure. I can understand that. My reply would be the same though, it's still the Steam Deck that has massively pushed the number up. So the title focused on that, and everything else is in the article list. TBH it feels like pedantic nit-picking at the title from kokoko3k. So I won't be entertaining comments on it further, I have much better things to do like upgrading the chart... :)

lol, I didn't even read the "thanks to Steam Deck" part of the title. Now it makes more sense. I mean, there definitely isn't a 2% Linux without the 36% Steam Deck at this point. The accelerated pace of tools and drivers undoubtedly a result of investment by Valve into the Linux eco system for Steam Deck. No Steam Deck, no accelerated pace. I'm with ya.

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: GuestThe title led me to expect a rise in SteamOS Holo usage.
However, the data shows a -0.28% decrease.
Is this a mistake or am I interpreting it incorrectly?

It is correct. The point of the title is that the Steam Deck is what's still pushing the Linux number up.

While "SteamOS Holo 64bit" is the first OS on the Steam chart, we should not forget that the other 63%+ of the Linux Steam usage polled by comes from other distros.

Writing this because I think they deserve a mention too ;)

They are mentioned clearly in the article in the list. Don’t really get what you’re trying to say here. A title only tells so much, and focused on what is actually pushing the number.

I think he means, Steam Deck added a huge chunk. But pure desktop is growing as well. There was a point that Steam Deck was almost 50% of the Linux percentage. Steam Deck hasn't stopped selling well. I figure, with the continued growth and success of the Steam Deck, it's percentage declining means that more and more people are installing Linux to their gaming machines. I definitely haven't seen any trends of people switching from SteamOS on their Steam Deck.

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Definitely a day 1 buy if the controller has 2.54 ghz wireless with mic built into the controller for voice chat.

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Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: chickenb00I pass: the trackpads do not have prime real estate where your thumbs will naturally rest on the controller.

Why do you rest your fingers anywhere? I have mine on the sticks or the buttons the whole time.

Right, he wants his thumbs on the track pads the whole time. Would be awesome if they let you swap everything around like the Thustmaster controller.

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