It's a Lenovo product who in my experience, have always been horrendously unreliable when it comes to build quality... I'm also skeptical about how much effort they'll dedicate to the SteamOS version over the Windows 11 version.

But, I suppose it's a step in the right direction and possibly a sign of things to come from more reliable manufacturers... Maybe.

The advantage is probably that Lenovo has a bigger distribution network for physical goods that actually reaches places where Valve can't or won't sell their Steam Decks.

That's assuming Lenovo actually put any effort into pushing the SteamOS version... Which historically, hasn't been the case with third-party manufacturers.

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So in other words, there's a heck of a lot of "shovelware" being uploaded to Steam...

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Proton has now proven itself capable and has been accepted as such for anything outside the anti-cheat MMO’s.

Most of these actually support Linux-based operating systems natively... It's just the incompetent developers like Epic Games that have no faith in the quality of their own work who are stopping this from being used en mass under Linux-based operating systems.

Anticheat BS might solve itself when behavior based AI solutions roll out or anyone builds an equivalent to the userspace observer Microsoft announced and hopefully our market share grows further.

Or they could just pay people to work alongside the anti-cheat (which already works under Linux-based operating systems)... A quick search shows that the typical number of concurrent players on Fortnite: Battle Royale over the last 30 days was 2,149; if you have a person monitoring say, ten gamers each, that's just 225 staff.

Not a lot of staff for a company the size of Epic Games, that is making billions of dollars a year just off Fortnite: Battle Royale (i.e. not even including all their other games).

Or they could just go the easy route and make multiplayer locked to same-platform multiplayer (i.e. Steam Deck users can only compete against others using Linux-based operating systems). I know that Fortnite: Battle Royale already supports this (it's in the game settings), and I suspect others do; so it wouldn't be difficult to implement this as a forced restriction under Linux-based operating systems.

(but there will probably be a couple more papercuts in the UI/UX that will remain in there for a looong time because Valve sure loves some of those)

What do you mean "Valve sure loves some of those"? In its default configuration, I am yet to see any of the bugs, design flaws or quirks typically associated with a Linux-based operating system in SteamOS; for all intents and purposes, the Steam Deck is of the same (software) standard as a handheld console from "The Big Three".

i highly doubt it will sell as much as a PS5 or the newest-gen Xbox...

Maybe if a new Steam Machine was released in its current state... But if Valve Software were to somehow convince developers to actually use their anti-cheat software (most of which natively support Linux-based operating systems), then "The Big Three" should be awfully worried about the future of console gaming.

but even 10% of that is already a huge success for linux, for PC gaming, for more open gaming platforms, etc

it will set a second tier of PC-gaming hardware perf targets for most games and will make game devs even more prone to paying attention to linux and SteamOS compatibility, ease of use of PC games with fully-remappable controllers, etc

Can't argue with this, because this is exactly what would happen... And it'd go a long way to solving the "chicken and egg" problem.

MS did try this, if you're old enough to remember when Win8 was launched and they tried to make all windows apps into UWP apps instead of .exes

And that was when Gabe went public to criticize them for the attempt, and started investing heavily on linux to build a viable alternative on it

Exactly.

SteamOS and the Steam Machines were originally intended to be a "safety blanket" for if Microsoft did something "out there" and significantly hurt Valve Software's business model (which at the time, looked like it might be the case in the near future)... But Gabe quickly saw "the big picture", and it evolved into a long-term project to be less reliant one third-parties like Microsoft.

First and foremost, this is about being self-reliant for Valve Software; the fact that they're doing this using a Linux-based operating system (which is the most logical choice, anyway) is just an added bonus for us Linux gamers and gamers in general.

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i womnder if there is demand for it...

A desktop PC-like Steam Machine would be of little appeal to me, because I have a gaming laptop that does a pretty good job; but if Valve Software were to offer a console-like Steam Machine that offered native HDMI output, I'd likely buy three of them tomorrow (one for each family member in our house).

I've had my Steam Deck since Christmas and the experience is so flawlessly done that I now want this on my projector (or in the case of the other family members in my household, television)... Yes, I can do that with a laptop or desktop PC - I already have laptops configured as home theater PCs and connected to my projector / one of the televisions; but the experience just isn't as "polished" as that of the Steam Deck, even with all the time I've put into configuring every last aspect of the home theater PCs.

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Quoting: PyrateI think it goes without saying that if Valve intends to capture a not insignificant portion of PC players (desktop or otherwise) to their SteamOS, their best chance ever will be around October next year when Windows 10 security updates stop.

Why would that change anything? It'd be no different to when Windows XP reached end-of-life, or Windows 7, or Windows 8... People will just move over to Windows 11 or whatever they're up to now, just like the gullible sheep they are.

Quoting: _MarsMultiplayer games will lower sales

Valve really need to address this... Most (all?) of the "anti-cheat" systems natively support Linux-based operating systems - but almost all of the developers behind them flat-out refuse to implement their own "anti-cheat" systems for gaming under Linux.

And that means that some of the biggest games currently available don't work under Linux-based operating systems in part or at all.

Valve Software have done some fantastic stuff with SteamOS and the Steam Deck, but it's high time they start looking for way to convince developers to actually use their "anti-cheat" systems under Linux-based operating systems... And this will be a pretty big requirement if Valve ever want a new-generation Steam Machine to compete directly with "The Big Three" console manufacturers.

Quoting: Vortex_AcheronticI fear the console marked could be a much tougher front than the handheld marked was as the Steam Deck launched.

If Valve launched a new-generation Steam Machine "as is", absolutely... But if they found a way to convince developers to actually use their "anti-cheat" systems under Linux-based operating systems, that'd be one hell of a competitor, even if one technically does not own any of their games.

Quoting: elmapul5. it need to be a silent device as well

That's not hard - my laptop and my PlayStation 5 make very little noise when working under a load... As long as you have great ventilation in both the console and the environment, it's not a problem.

---

Anyway, I hope there's some substance to this, because after the current generation of consoles, which has been unbelievably disappointing, I honestly don't think I'm going to bother with a PlayStation 6"... And I've had them all to date, along with most Segas and Nintendos.

With a new generation of a Steam Deck, I'd lose the ability to "own" my games - but overnight, my potential console library would be in the low thousands at worst, under a cutting-edge, Linux-based operating system that is always evolving.

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Quoting: PyrateAnd I only received that prompt a couple months ago, despite being on Linux since last March.

It's really sporadic how often it pops up, and is not reflective of Real World usage... I've been gaming under Linux-based operating systems for close to 20 years, and I could (quite literally!) count on one hand the amount of times I've seen the survey - what's worse is that most of the times I have seen the survey has been on a "fresh" system or after installing Steam for the first time!

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Quoting: ToddLwithout worrying about some weird proprietary connector like the Switch

The Switch has a USB Typc-C connection... Nothing proprietary.

Quoting: PoliticsOfStarvingWe have strong consumer protections here, and Valve doesn’t always see eye to eye with how our laws work. That’s been the prevailing theory.

Sometimes - for example, the Government is notoriously weak when it comes to companies banding together and fixing prices... Just look at what's happening with the supermarkets.

Also, every couple of years, the Government has a big whinge about major companies, such as Adobe and Microsoft, charging significantly more than overseas without justification, then after a big song and dance about how they're going to do something to stop this practice, they do absolutely nothing. Wait a few years, rinse and repeat with a different company.

In addition, we've had a number of multinational companies over the years that have been threatened with legal action when they've refused to comply with Consumer Legislation, only for the company to simply work around the legal action through a loophole or the Government to back down completely.

In short, they're tough on Consumer Legislation until somebody waves a big wad of cash in front of their face or simply stares them down.

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Quoting: CaldathrasAnother point I want to make is the often overlooked flaw in the whole Native thing. Linux evolves and changes all the time. As a relative newcomer to Linux gaming, I have already encountered numerous old native games that simply will not run on modern Linux configurations -- the libraries and technologies they depend on are no longer there.

How is this any different to <insert operating system>?

There are loads of "native" titles for Google Android operating systems that simply won't run if your handset manufacturer hasn't upgraded the firmware of your cell phone... Whilst both Apple macOS and Microsoft Windows operating systems have "broken" countless games over the years; many games won't even run under "modern" Windows operating systems without tweaks and work-arounds.

But your argument, nobody should make a "native" title of anything, ever.

Quoting: CaldathrasThen there are the commercial native software that their developers no longer support -- they suffer from the same problem.

Again, not exclusive to Linux-based operating systems... I have an entire iPhone full of games and applications which are no longer supported by developers and before I left Google Android back in 2017-ish, the list of "unsupported" games and applications I had installed on my cellphone was MASSIVE.

I also have a small number of programs under macOS which are no longer supported, and there are quite a few programs I bought pre-2012 (when I abandoned Windows operating systems for good) that are no longer supported on the rare occasion I use our only Windows-powered PC, my daughter's laptop.

Once again, your argument against "native" titles is just silly.

Quoting: CaldathrasSo, how is running natively any better than utilizing Proton/WINE?

Performance.

When developers actually take the time to optimize their games for Linux-based operating systems, the performance is always going to be better... And the same could be said in reverse - any game written natively for macOS or Windows is going to perform better when written natively, if a developer has taken the time to optimize it.

Quoting: elmapulfor an company, porting to linux means wasting 10% or more of the income of the game into porting to an platform that would generate 1% more money, wich means they wasted more money than earned, it was possible to make a profit when linux had no games, because the developers had no competiton, but that is not sustainable when we do have competition.
if we relied on native ports without finding any way to expand the market we would be doomed to fail just like we failed in the past, where we did had some AAA games in the doom era, but not much more than that.

Well if Valve Software actually released the Steam Deck to the world instead of just "select regions", they'd have FAR more than 1% of potential customers.

In saying this, I'm not so naive to deny that it is the old "chicken and egg" scenario, which Proton helps to mitigate, though not completely resolve... But Valve Software isn't helping by ignoring some HUGE gaming markets, like Australia, purely because they're too lazy to be bothered / put the idea into the "too hard" basket.

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Quoting: _MarsMaybe as a mid-gen release for the SteamDeck 2 similar to the OLED to keep interest up?

A global release of the Steam Deck would help with that, too... 🙄

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Quoting: emphyNative linux is better

Only when it's optimized correctly... Otherwise, it's just like saying a broken-down Ferrari is as good as one bought new.

If developers put in the effort to optimize their games - and that's a big "if" in the Linux world - they have the potential to be far better than Proton could ever hope to be, even under "perfect" conditions.

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