Quoting: GuestSure they can sue Russia or Russians. To this day (funny enough) Russia keeps upholding Western copyright (Belarus doesn't though) which is why alot of Russians remain scared to just blatantly rip off Western brands. Besides, if Capcom gets sued they'll likely force Enigma or whoever to pay them back/will take their business away. So it doesn't matter.

Ever heard of Sci-Hub it prevails to this day, because Russia doesn't.

Quoting: GuestReally? Then how did Germany threaten the US? or other US allies like South Korea?

By annexing SudetenLand which was part of a country the allies promised to protect specifically from german agression.
Even attacking Poland and France(all U.S allies) wasn't enough to get specific USA soldiers on their doorstep sinking US ships and trying to ally with its enemies(Mexico and Japan) were needed to get that.

Quoting: GuestSure there's a site for it, but the dominant discourse in the West is not about sanctioning Israel or its products. Indeed, we have seen how Western countries have pulled out of Russia, while the scale of the genocide in Israel is much greater. The fact that everyone seems to be okay with it is rather concerning, and that there is a double standard about it.

The companies pulling back is an effect of government pressure not social pressure, which is fully motivated by governmental fear. The western governements believe Israel won't target them(because they're its only allies in hostile world) and aren't convinced that the much stronger Russian government with more allies can be held in check that way.
I can't go to school without passing a protest for sanctions for Israel, I can do that without passing a Russia sanction protest.

Quoting: GuestI agree, war is bad. But what exactly is special about Europe that "war on its doorstep" would warrant such a response, but would not warrant a similar response in Gaza? Also there was "war on its doorstep" back in 1999 when Belgrade was bombed, but I didn't see such a response either - there was no boycott of US goods/companies in response. To me it seems kinda of like people use this as a justification for their own racist beliefs.

The Gaza case is, because Israel has so many enemies that if it were to leak its war to the West it would get decimated by its neighbors also there is a sea inbetween.
Back than the government send soldiers. Got a bunch of war crimes on its name. Sued and protested. Which resulted in the effects mentioned here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia#Criticism_of_the_campaign(I [External Link] wasn't born yet I remember nothing) and seeded current distrust among NATO allies(my government still questions the loyalty of the british, since then.

Quoting: GuestIf what you say is true - you want to explain the US 900 military bases worldwide?

They "trust" the USA not to attack them, because of all these bases they would be hard pressed if their allies turned on them.
This trust doesn't range far though, due to the memories of the Iraq war the US security services had to release most of their evidence of Russian troop collecting at the border before the rest believed them.
Also due to internal protest most western nations(who haven't been USSR members) have expelled american bases from their borders(,which is the scary part).

Also yes the west is a bunch of imperialistic prics. That's why the fear argument works. I get that on the news everyday.

This official sanctions aren't a moral choice they're a choice of fear. They're the political expedient alternative on war. Does that mean the West never fights wars: no, but the more they fear you the less they want an open confrontation and work in sanctions. Western propaganda claims the moral high ground, but the choices its government makes are based on fear and greed not morality and although the choices the people make are sometimes based on morality 99 percent of the time it's self interest.
You keep thinking the Western governments need a moral excuse to sanction Russia. When national security comes into play they don't. All they need is a selfish excuse, so no this isn't even a justification this is just western panic football.

Did Donald J. Trump give any excuse to sanction China, besides "they're too rich and powerful" not that I remember. Did he do it anyway certainly. Why do you think Russia is different is being too brave not enough excuse to get cut down by those in power.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: LoudTechie

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: NeoTheFoxA reminder that Enigma is developed by a russian company, and they are trying to actively hide that fact.
Also, check this post out: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2183650/discussions/0/7091547146187298312/ [External Link]

What's wrong with Russian companies?

This requires cultural background.
Many of us are citizens of "the west" and have more trust in countries our own country places trust in(to your choice due to propaganda or democracy).
Normally this's no issue, but for something like drm we know it can do anything on our computer and we actively install it.
For some people this is reason to install no drm for others it's reason to be selctive.
The link he gave was supposed to further discredit the idea that using Enigma is a good idea. The indication for this was the also.
What's the specific thread feared as far as I get it, it's the fear you might not be able to sue someone once they fuck you over.
A link with the same credibility as the past one, which actually touches on the Enigma Russia issue https://steamcommunity.com/app/222480/discussions/0/6852856365577877489/ [External Link].

I read the link - again who cares? This targetting of Russians is borderline racist. Like we have the US with a history of spying on everyone (citizens and allies alike) and nobody cares about installing US DRM (even though its far more likely to hack you).

Like the whole "target Russia" thing is super weird - there's wars all over the place (look at the genocide Israel is doing in Gaza right now and nobody seems to be saying "its an Isreali company, we shouldn't use it). This double standard is concerning and reminiscent of ethnic based targetting of Germans and Japanese during WW2.

I highly doubt that the company is gonna fuck you over, besides its put on capcoms games so then capcom can be sued.

It's nationalist they aren't angry at Russia or Russians. They're afraid afraid of them.
A westerner can sue a western government who's illegally spying on them and have a real chance of winning.
These people don't express this fear about Israel, because they trust them to be held accountable when sued and only seriously spy on those who threaten them, which happen to be basically only people who aren't them.
Also people not saying "don't buy from Israelian companies" is simply not true people. They do that all the time there is even a website https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott [External Link].

I don't doubt they're gonna fuck me over, they're a drm company it's their job.
True, Capcom can be sued, but the fear of their boss getting sued doesn't scare subcontractors. The juridical system has an important job as "threat" and to Enigma it doesn't fill that requirement.

Also the Ukraine War is extra important to much of the West, because it is right at their doorstep.
Behind Ukraine lie tons of NATO members(according to most western acknowledged territory claims Russian missiles have already landed and exploded in NATO territory: Transnistria or as NATO would call it Romania) and the attack happened right when Ukraine cozied up to the West.
I understand why this spooked Putin, but that doesn't mean a war at Europe's doorstep stops scaring Europe or the USA(who is just perma spooked by everything look at their military spending).

We should also note that the West didn't respond with as much writ to the Annexation of the Krim.
That's because it's learned behavior from WWII to test some European country's imperialistic ambition by giving them the first thing they ask for, but when the second thing comes along to strike.

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Quoting: andriishafarIsn't this what steam flatpak does? They don't use Steam Linux Runtime/Steam Runtime Tools for Proton flatpak. Linux is all about "everyone, quick, let's build same thing but different"

Well, yes. That is what the third software freedom is about.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html#four-freedoms [External Link]
A makes something and if B thinks they can do even the smallest thing better or different they can reuse as much of the work of A as realistically achievable to make it.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: NeoTheFoxA reminder that Enigma is developed by a russian company, and they are trying to actively hide that fact.
Also, check this post out: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2183650/discussions/0/7091547146187298312/ [External Link]

What's wrong with Russian companies?

This requires cultural background.
Many of us are citizens of "the west" and have more trust in countries our own country places trust in(to your choice due to propaganda or democracy).
Normally this's no issue, but for something like drm we know it can do anything on our computer and we actively install it.
For some people this is reason to install no drm for others it's reason to be selctive.
The link he gave was supposed to further discredit the idea that using Enigma is a good idea. The indication for this was the also.
What's the specific thread feared as far as I get it, it's the fear you might not be able to sue someone once they fuck you over.
A link with the same credibility as the past one, which actually touches on the Enigma Russia issue https://steamcommunity.com/app/222480/discussions/0/6852856365577877489/ [External Link].

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Quoting: Liam Dawe...what?

I attempted to humorously indicate that your definition of "works fine" might not be shared with the people Valve is writing that blog post to.
Error messages can be really scary to users who don't understand the device they're using.
To these people any error message is "doesn't work"
That having said, I understand this was aimed at your conversation partner who you might have known has a more matching definition.

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Quoting: Liam DaweGives 2 or so errors in-game which you skip, as the errors are about multiplayer. Solo offline works fine.

Ka-Ching you've been tricked.
Sneakily you've been an advanced user all along.
We knew it.
You consider something working well offline if the "errors are about multi-player".
This means you can see the difference between different kinds of error messages know multi-player is online and know that not every error is destruction of your play time.
The fact that you consider it fine means that you've experienced similar issues before.

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Quoting: Ehvis

Quoting: LoudTechieThe only active protection it can offer is the extra protection flatpak offers compared to

The end of your sentence is cut off.

Wine/Proton could also provide some filesystem protection as it serves up a virtual one. Unfortunately, both wine and proton just map the whole root filesystem as a drive so anything could potentially have a peek at everything. I wish at least proton would be more restrictive in what it maps.

*snap(I wasn't certain snap also sandboxed, but wikipedia says snap does so)

Winehq would never do that for it makes a generic assumption of what will be running(office apps, games, doesn't matter).
Proton has it probably somewhere on the bottom of their priority list(security isn't as sexy as say performance and much harder).
One of the g.o.l aimed Proton forks might do it though.
The first version would probably break some "copy protections".

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Quoting: Pengling

Quoting: t3gCapcom should have gone after the streamer instead of punishing paid consumers. Just shows how old fashioned and out of touch most Japanese businesses are.

Exactly. Most companies would respond with "Oops! Sorry guys, this fella isn't associated with us." and just bar them from handling events that they sponsor (assuming that this was a Capcom-sponsored event in the first place - I don't know if it was that or a community-run one). But noooooooooo, not Capcom. :dizzy:

Quoting: LoudTechieIssues I can't predict, but Proton as a container is misleading.
Proton provides 0 containment on itself and is very clear about that.

They're designed to run in a layer of security called "user space" or as others call it ring 0.
It's the difference between root and everything else(on most systems).
Within this restricted space they're willing to let programs do and whatever they like.

They actively support some forms of debugger detection, file analysis, etc. specifically to support "copy protection".
There was an actual attempt for punk buster it failed, because of an issue even Windows had(Wine just had it a lot more extreme and since punk buster got fixed they already marked it as won't fix).
The reason why malware often fails is, because it wants to run in kernel space and Proton simply doesn't support kernel commands.
The only active protection it can offer is the extra protection flatpak offers compared to

Thankyou - that's very informative. :smile:

So, is it safe to assume that, if there's anything untoward about Capcom's software beyond them adding DRM by stealth, it wouldn't actually be able to do anything?

I might be getting older, but I'm not afraid to admit that there's things I don't know - I left Windows behind so long ago that I'm just used to the fact that Linux and other Unix-likes tend to be largely trouble-free, so this affecting software I'd bought is completely new to me. :tongue:

It wouldn't be able to do some very specific things, but it could still if it really wanted to in theory delete, read or edit your entire personal map until your machine is restarted(meaning mostly games and the steam client, since you've a dedicated steam deck).

The best indication. Proton aims to give everything that runs on it as much abilities as a standard browser or office app.
For a game this is still a lot of permissions, but it's not really acceptable malware level.

Ransomwaring your steamdeck won't work, spying on your Steam deck is possible although somewhat limited, crypto mining is possible(although really obvious), sending a duck waggling across your screen is possible(class mate once pulled this one on another) and all long term stuff can probably be turned off permanently by rebooting the device(non-sleep mode).

Had it been actually contained(like a flatpak or snap) it would fit the strict interpretation of your definition, but as you can see in the discussion surrounding the Steam development release about their lack of support for it is that this is still largely experimental technology from a usability perspective.*

*Don't get me started on ways to improve this. Doing that to me is like triggering your bomberman lore rant.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: LoudTechie

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: LoudTechie

Quoting: Purple Library GuyAnd there doesn't seem to be anything else in the wind that would make it worth all the expense of making the AI.

There is another reason it's worth it.
Few entities have the budget to do it.

Uh, yeah, and that makes it worth it how if there's no revenue associated? I was pointing out where the revenue seems to be coming from. You counter that not by pointing out that the stuff is expensive, which just makes the point that they better have some revenue coming in, but by pointing out an alternative source of revenue, and suggesting some reason they'd want that source instead rather than having both. (Except you shouldn't, because I'm right :tongue: )

Sorry. I didn't make my point clear.
Those using my reasoning intend to use their control of a market they already control to be their source of income for it, but want to protect that source of income from competition with deep learning(I realized we might be talking about different things under the same banner).
It's somewhat like buying a lock for your house. Is a lock profitable. It doesn't generate money, but it keeps others from taking what you already possess.

Well, yes, that's certainly part of it. But they're going for the part I mentioned too--I mean, why not? Sure, it could maim the internet goose that lays the golden eggs, but that's not a "next quarter" problem.

That young upstart stealing your market can come as much "next quarter" as next century. The problem isn't all these people with world shocking ideas and skills, but the problem is that even one my exist.
Having said that, I do agree that your reason is probably also on the list of legit reasons to invest in AI for these companies.

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Quoting: such

Quoting: LoudTechie

Quoting: such

Quoting: melkemindInevitably, the "pirates" crack the DRM, so the only people DRM ends up hurting are the paying customers.

That's not quite the case anymore with Denuvo.

A. they just switched away from Denuvo.
B. Denuvo cracks still happen, but you're right it's the strongest I know of(every version of football manager up to 2023 and Hogwards Legacy have fallen).

There's been two people/groups cracking Denuvo that I know of - one was doing football games exclusively, the other has been radio silent for a bit now. Feel free to correct me on that. Still, not many bother with Denuvo.

I'm just saying digital lead us to a reality in which not all DRM gets circumvented eventually, but that narrative is so ingrained in everyone's consciousness that it's becoming actively harmful. We've lost as consumers, a long time ago.

Radio silence in her case is relative.
Produces lots of sound and only sometimes cracks, but you're right Denuvo is quite good at what it does.
Also there're some more "low tech" groups that don't attack the code itself, but some of the weaker license key schemes(Sims crack)
The thing with this harmful mindset is that it's so prevalent, because in mathematical theory it's true(all the relevant information is send to you), but math ignores the law, societal development and language.
The copyright laws combined with language barriers and the abolishing of the harsh technological restrictions on "western hostile" nations are working.
Denuvo had to send multiple people to jail, but it did work the crackers started getting cautious with it.
Also the lack of technology restrictions on "western hostile" countries means that a lot less people in legally accepting environments are interested in cracking nowadays.
Language barriers also play a role. Sometimes large drm cracking scenes based on some general bug have sprung up in nations such as China and survived for a long time without getting noticed for years.

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