Quoting: constexcept having a linux elf.

Oooh, I want a Linux elf! It must be kind of like a Christmas elf only it's part penguin and it gives all year round!

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Quoting: ExpandingMan

Quoting: tuubiYou're thinking of high fantasy which is only one of the subgenres. Understandable, as that's what almost anyone thinks of when they hear the genre mentioned. And even that subgenre is likely to be more varied than you give it credit for.

Well, it was foolish of me to try to get into this conversation without trying to define the genre, that's for sure.

Regardless, what I see in this trailer does not look to me like a clever or interesting setting, it looks a lot like the kind of thing that you're criticizing me for stereotyping fantasy as.

Could be.
I don't think we really have enough information to be sure, but it's not unlikely--I'd say games, especially at the higher budget end, tend to lean fairly heavily on the most, ah, classic imagery, whether in F or SF.

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Quoting: ExpandingMan

Quoting: Purple Library GuyDon't get me wrong--I'm a science fiction fan. I've been reading SF since before I saw the first release of Star Wars in theatres and thought it was fun, but kind of bad SF. But it's just as cliche-prone as fantasy. Pretending otherwise is an attempt to create a false objective basis to personal taste.

I don't entirely disagree, and the only reason it's possible for these things to be genres is that they have these tropes, they're just significantly narrower in fantasy than in sci fi.

I'm thinking that because you don't much like fantasy, reasonably enough you don't read much of it. And since you don't read much of it, you don't have much awareness of what is actually out there.

But theoretically, fantasy is much broader, since science fiction embraces everything that is possible (OK, plus a few things we agree to pretend are possible, like FTL travel), whereas fantasy allows both possible and impossible things. And actually existing fantasy uses more of that territory than you would think. Jasper Fforde writes about a heroine who learns to enter books by "reading herself into" them, thwarting a villain who plots to ruin Jane Eyre by going into the original manuscript and changing the plot, in a Britain which includes the People's Republic of Wales, which smuggles dangerous cheese into England, and a prime minister running on a platform of developing "anti-smote" devices to prevent God from smiting England if He gets annoyed.

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Quoting: ExpandingMan

Quoting: Purple Library GuyMind you, science fiction usually means "modern North America with a few specific tropes largely derived from Star Trek, Star Wars, and Andre Norton" which seems consistent with my understanding of No Man's Sky.

Even if I completely agreed with that, the things you listed here already seem a lot more diverse than LotR/D&D.

Example: it would seem ridiculous to put the Klingon Empire in NMS. Put dragons in light no fire... oh wait, they did that lol

Dragons are a thing vaguely on par with "spaceships", or "handguns that shoot beams", not "The Klingon Empire". And how many SF games have "A warrior race prone to violence, optionally with odd notions of honour, who are physically implausibly identical to humans except for slightly different faces, hair and variations in build"? No, they don't call them Klingons; Klingons are intellectual-property-protected to hell and back. But they fill the same roles.

Don't get me wrong--I'm a science fiction fan. I've been reading SF since before I saw the first release of Star Wars in theatres and thought it was fun, but kind of bad SF. But it's just as cliche-prone as fantasy. Pretending otherwise is an attempt to create a false objective basis to personal taste.

(I actually picked up and read the book "Star Wars", saying on the cover "Soon to be a major motion picture!" a few months before the movie came out. I was like, sure, sure, major motion picture, like that's going to happen.)

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Quoting: ExpandingMan

Quoting: Purple Library GuyDo we have evidence of just what sort of fantasy setting it is, or are you just asserting that all fantasy settings are rote and generic?

Just my impression based on the video. More broadly, fantasy usually means "medieval Europe with a few specific tropes largely derived from LoTR and D&D", which seems consistent with what we are seeing (e.g. architecture, weapons, dragons).

Well, point. Mind you, science fiction usually means "modern North America with a few specific tropes largely derived from Star Trek, Star Wars, and Andre Norton" which seems consistent with my understanding of No Man's Sky.

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Quoting: BlackBloodRum

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: BlackBloodRum

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: CatKiller

Naturally, thanks to Valve's Steam Play Proton, it's likely all of them will be playable on Linux / Steam Deck on or shortly after release in some form.

Given that a lot of Sega's PC games have been released for Linux already it's not out of the question that they'll work on Linux/Deck without Proton.

I guess we have a different definition of "a lot". Going by their publisher page [External Link], it's pretty rare actually. The last was Two Point Campus, 2022. Before that were Total War games from Feral, which they no longer do for Linux, and before that Two Point Hospital in 2018.

The majority of their Linux titles were either Feral, or all those retro emulated games in the SEGA collection. I really don't see any of these titles having Native Linux support.

Sad but true. With the success of proton, it simply means at this point there is no reason to develop games directly for Linux. Why spend money on the platform and support it officially when others will pick up your slack, for free?

It's a win-win for developers: They can profit from selling it to you, while having no expensive porting costs and no costs for providing support to you. (They can safely decline support tickets for Linux clients, under the guise of "We don't support that platform").

Proton is both a blessing and a curse for us. I do miss native games but I don't see them coming back, at least not any time soon. Thankfully, it doesn't matter, since we have lots of working games now, thanks to proton!

Well, but, it doesn't seem as if there's been much change in the number of native games released since Proton? I always expected people would stop doing it, but they haven't. Presumably, then, there are still some reasons to do it.

Indies still do, mostly. But I'm referring to big studio games so-called "AAA" games. We used to get big names like Tomb Raider, DiRT, Alien: Isolation (One of the best, most fun games!) with proper ports to Linux by Feral and such.

You just don't see that any more (or I don't anyway?)

We did get some of those, for a while. But IMO it was a blip, really. It happened when some of the AAAs briefly believed that Steam Machines would be big, and then gradually tailed off from then. Far as I can tell they'd already pretty much quit before Proton was even a thing. Proton was maybe a nail in the coffin, particularly for Feral in specific, but that coffin was already pretty much nailed shut at the time.

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Quoting: BlackBloodRum

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: CatKiller

Naturally, thanks to Valve's Steam Play Proton, it's likely all of them will be playable on Linux / Steam Deck on or shortly after release in some form.

Given that a lot of Sega's PC games have been released for Linux already it's not out of the question that they'll work on Linux/Deck without Proton.

I guess we have a different definition of "a lot". Going by their publisher page [External Link], it's pretty rare actually. The last was Two Point Campus, 2022. Before that were Total War games from Feral, which they no longer do for Linux, and before that Two Point Hospital in 2018.

The majority of their Linux titles were either Feral, or all those retro emulated games in the SEGA collection. I really don't see any of these titles having Native Linux support.

Sad but true. With the success of proton, it simply means at this point there is no reason to develop games directly for Linux. Why spend money on the platform and support it officially when others will pick up your slack, for free?

It's a win-win for developers: They can profit from selling it to you, while having no expensive porting costs and no costs for providing support to you. (They can safely decline support tickets for Linux clients, under the guise of "We don't support that platform").

Proton is both a blessing and a curse for us. I do miss native games but I don't see them coming back, at least not any time soon. Thankfully, it doesn't matter, since we have lots of working games now, thanks to proton!

Well, but, it doesn't seem as if there's been much change in the number of native games released since Proton? I always expected people would stop doing it, but they haven't. Presumably, then, there are still some reasons to do it.

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Quoting: BlackBloodRumThis is one of those games, where I can see just from the description, I would not be good at it, and would probably not be able to complete the game. :grin:

I can just imagine. Someone complains that they're stressed and down in the dumps, and you reply, "Arrrr! Then ye're vulnerable! Heave to and prepare to be boarded and hand over all yer cargo!!!"

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Must say the Blue Danube added to my interest. Do we get that in the real game?

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Quoting: ExpandingManI should also amend my previous comment by saying that the art style in this game still looks absolutely beautiful which seems to be something Hello Games has a unique talent for, it's just that the removal of the awesome space setting for the rote, generic, fantasy magic dragons setting just fills me with a deep existential sadness.

Do we have evidence of just what sort of fantasy setting it is, or are you just asserting that all fantasy settings are rote and generic?

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