Quoting: slaapliedjeSo can you now go from imperial rome to crusader kings 3, to victoria 3 to hearts of iron?

Now all they need is something set in an interplanetary-exploration-in-our-solar-system era and you could go from Rome to Stellaris.

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Quoting: BotonoskiThis could be the next step for console gaming, not the portability but the versatility, it's not enough for a console to just play games anymore, much like how at one point, it wasn't enough for phones to just make call.

That is an interesting point that had never occurred to me.

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Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: slaapliedjeI need to play it again, last time I started getting into it, some space pirates took over my colony and a giant space monster ate my space ship. Clearly I need to build up more stuff before I explore more!

Explore tons, IMO.
Giant space monsters are gonna eat the occasional exploration ship; it happens. I usually have like four, sometimes maybe five, exploration science ships going at a time. Worth it just for the research boosts when you find anomalies IMO. And then if one of them gets eaten, my exploration doesn't grind to a halt. Crawling behind them I have a few construction ships making mining/research stations as fast as my Influence will let me take systems.

Pirates showing up early at your core colony, though, that's just weirdly bad luck. I've never seen that. Nearby enough to be annoying and make me have to suddenly build up a little navy to take them out with when I wanted to be doing other stuff, yeah, occasionally. But there's always a cushion, they start a few systems away. Maybe you're not expanding your territory fast enough, so there's nowhere to put pirates except right close to home.

So I was expanding really fast, pretty much like you said, but didn't have much military. Had an colony world out further away from my main planet, discovered the pirates, and then tried getting my one or three little military ships over to the pirates, and that's when a space monster ate them, then the pirates captured my colony and sold them off for slaves.

Been quite a few updates / DLC since then though! Actually now that I think about it, last time I played was about January of 2020...

Whoa. Yeah, that's a pretty sucky development. When something goes very wrong for me most often it's, I'll be merrily expanding away, run into a couple of alien races too dashed soon, and then one of them declares war on me, and I realize I haven't built much of a navy and have been going for nothing but economically and scientifically strategic tech, so my ships suck.
When that happens in the early game I tend to just start again. Although it seems a bit rarer with the new contact/diplomacy/espionage system--info on other races is so crappy it takes a while for a newly contacted alien race to even figure out whether you're vulnerable.

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Quoting: slaapliedjeI need to play it again, last time I started getting into it, some space pirates took over my colony and a giant space monster ate my space ship. Clearly I need to build up more stuff before I explore more!

Explore tons, IMO.
Giant space monsters are gonna eat the occasional exploration ship; it happens. I usually have like four, sometimes maybe five, exploration science ships going at a time. Worth it just for the research boosts when you find anomalies IMO. And then if one of them gets eaten, my exploration doesn't grind to a halt. Crawling behind them I have a few construction ships making mining/research stations as fast as my Influence will let me take systems.

Pirates showing up early at your core colony, though, that's just weirdly bad luck. I've never seen that. Nearby enough to be annoying and make me have to suddenly build up a little navy to take them out with when I wanted to be doing other stuff, yeah, occasionally. But there's always a cushion, they start a few systems away. Maybe you're not expanding your territory fast enough, so there's nowhere to put pirates except right close to home.

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Quoting: Mountain ManThere's already a large number of Linux gamers on PC, but that hasn't compelled a critical mass of publishers to start paying for native Linux builds

No there isn't. We've been at ~1% on Steam. Literally a rounding error.

Quoting: Mountain Man, and I doubt the Steam Deck is going to change that even if it sells Nintendo Switch numbers.

I disagree with you. At numbers like that, Linux would no longer be a rounding error, it would be a sizable and fairly high profile platform. Despite the impact of Proton, I think that would prompt serious consideration of Linux as a native target.

Quoting: Mountain ManProton has been both a blessing and a curse in that respect. It's made games on Linux more accessible than ever before while eliminating the need for developers to focus on Linux because they get access to that market for free. Notice that porting houses like Feral and Aspyr essentially closed up shop after the introduction of Proton. That's just the reality of the situation.

That effect does exist, I'm not going to claim otherwise. But it's not the only effect happening. Whether it's the actual increase in numbers, the impression that numbers will go up further, or just the buzz and higher profile, the fact is that despite the Steam Deck's general reliance on Proton, some developers seem to have targeted Linux natively in part because of the Steam Deck.

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Quoting: pete910

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: pete910

Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: pete910

Quoting: CorbenNow we "just" need the slow transition of devs actually doing native Linux build with it

Yea, Not going to happen. We will still be reliant on Proton. The days of the big publishers doing native builds just ain't coming.

Depends how many more Steam Decks get sold.

Since developers already get Steam Deck support for free with Proton, what incentive do they have to release native Linux versions?

Nail, Meet hammer!

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: pete910

Quoting: CorbenNow we "just" need the slow transition of devs actually doing native Linux build with it

Yea, Not going to happen. We will still be reliant on Proton. The days of the big publishers doing native builds just ain't coming.

Depends how many more Steam Decks get sold.

Since developers already get Steam Deck support for free with Proton, what incentive do they have to release native Linux versions?

And I mean, some developers are already specifically releasing native Linux builds for the Steam Deck. I've seen a few articles right here on GoL about games doing exactly that. So whatever their incentives might be, there clearly are some. Not big developers at this point, but if the current number of Steam Decks is enough for some smaller developers to go native, many more Steam Decks would presumably be enough for larger developers to try it.

So as I said, depends how many more Steam Decks get sold.

There's the crux, They have to do nothing as proton does it for them. If a patch does break it ain't there problem so no negative feedback, win, win.

But the most important part is a native build will cost time and money, Proton costs them nothing! Unfortunately it's a numbers game.

So how do you explain the fact that some developers are, in fact, creating Linux native builds, some of them specifically referring to the Steam Deck when they do so?

You can say all you like that there's no reason for anyone to ever do X, but if some people are actually doing X, presumably you're, you know, wrong.

(Oh, and really--"nail, meet hammer"? Pretentious much? You don't win discussions by declaring yourself the winner, not after grade school anyway)

Wow, come down of your high horse.

Please point to where all these native builds are, Do we even have a native Boarderlands 3 yet, Hell even Serious sam 4 ?

Mm, moved into twisting words/moving goalposts. I didn't say "all these", and I specifically said it was not currently big games, that whether big games would do the same would depend (how many times do I have to say this) on how many Steam Decks get sold. Really, this isn't complicated, nor should it be controversial.

So. In the last few days, for instance, I've seen these articles here on GoL:

As promised recently, Rogue Legacy 2 from Cellar Door Games now has a Native Linux version available to give you the best experience possible on Steam Deck and Linux desktop.

Lumencraft is a really interesting game that blends together elements of tower-defense, base-building, mining and a little Deep Rock Galactic in a top-down view. A big new release is out now and it's Steam Deck Verified with Native Linux support.


I see such articles fairly often. You can call me a liar if you want, I suppose, as you pretty much just did, but it might make more sense to engage with the fact that your position suggests these things shouldn't exist, yet they do exist, therefore you should perhaps modify your position.

I have suggested reasons why they might be doing what they are, in fact, doing:
More control, potentially better performance, good PR.
Other reasons might exist, but you haven't engaged with any of the ones I suggested.

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Quoting: pete910

Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: pete910

Quoting: CorbenNow we "just" need the slow transition of devs actually doing native Linux build with it

Yea, Not going to happen. We will still be reliant on Proton. The days of the big publishers doing native builds just ain't coming.

Depends how many more Steam Decks get sold.

Since developers already get Steam Deck support for free with Proton, what incentive do they have to release native Linux versions?

Nail, Meet hammer!

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: pete910

Quoting: CorbenNow we "just" need the slow transition of devs actually doing native Linux build with it

Yea, Not going to happen. We will still be reliant on Proton. The days of the big publishers doing native builds just ain't coming.

Depends how many more Steam Decks get sold.

Since developers already get Steam Deck support for free with Proton, what incentive do they have to release native Linux versions?

More control, potentially better performance, good PR.

And I mean, some developers are already specifically releasing native Linux builds for the Steam Deck. I've seen a few articles right here on GoL about games doing exactly that. So whatever their incentives might be, there clearly are some. Not big developers at this point, but if the current number of Steam Decks is enough for some smaller developers to go native, many more Steam Decks would presumably be enough for larger developers to try it.

So as I said, depends how many more Steam Decks get sold.

There's the crux, They have to do nothing as proton does it for them. If a patch does break it ain't there problem so no negative feedback, win, win.

But the most important part is a native build will cost time and money, Proton costs them nothing! Unfortunately it's a numbers game.

So how do you explain the fact that some developers are, in fact, creating Linux native builds, some of them specifically referring to the Steam Deck when they do so?

You can say all you like that there's no reason for anyone to ever do X, but if some people are actually doing X, presumably you're, you know, wrong.

(Oh, and really--"nail, meet hammer"? Pretentious much? You don't win discussions by declaring yourself the winner, not after grade school anyway)

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Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: pete910

Quoting: CorbenNow we "just" need the slow transition of devs actually doing native Linux build with it

Yea, Not going to happen. We will still be reliant on Proton. The days of the big publishers doing native builds just ain't coming.

Depends how many more Steam Decks get sold.

Since developers already get Steam Deck support for free with Proton, what incentive do they have to release native Linux versions?

More control, potentially better performance, good PR.

And I mean, some developers are already specifically releasing native Linux builds for the Steam Deck. I've seen a few articles right here on GoL about games doing exactly that. So whatever their incentives might be, there clearly are some. Not big developers at this point, but if the current number of Steam Decks is enough for some smaller developers to go native, many more Steam Decks would presumably be enough for larger developers to try it.

So as I said, depends how many more Steam Decks get sold.

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Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: itscalledrealityEDIT:
Oh I see it was a public vote, lame.

Perish the thought that anything should be decided based on what most people think.

What if most people are wrong and the Playdate is the better device?

Actually, what is the "best" X is a classic case of something that can really only be determined by democratic vote. If you want to determine the boiling point of lead, you don't want to do a poll on it, you want to check a reference book or ask a chemist (who will check a reference book).

But if the question is what is the "best" something, there literally is no way "most people" can be wrong. It's a subjective question; there are no agreed objective criteria. Experts cannot determine this. Arguably nothing can, and certainly individuals are free to continue thinking item number 3 is the best even if the majority thinks number 5 is. But a majority vote is definitely the closest you can come to a determination of something like that; certainly "a few experts" would have far less validity.

Sure but popular vote doesn’t account for bias. The people voting on this don’t all own Steam Decks and Playdates. This is a poll of best device from a game website that’s been pimping Steam Deck. It’s not a national or international or galactic poll where people had to vote on these things objectively after a predefined period of information.

Fair point. On the other hand, experts are far from immune to bias. At least with fans, we don't have to ask who's paying them.

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Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: itscalledrealityEDIT:
Oh I see it was a public vote, lame.

Perish the thought that anything should be decided based on what most people think.

What if most people are wrong and the Playdate is the better device?

Actually, what is the "best" X is a classic case of something that can really only be determined by democratic vote. If you want to determine the boiling point of lead, you don't want to do a poll on it, you want to check a reference book or ask a chemist (who will check a reference book).

But if the question is what is the "best" something, there literally is no way "most people" can be wrong. It's a subjective question; there are no agreed objective criteria. Experts cannot determine this. Arguably nothing can, and certainly individuals are free to continue thinking item number 3 is the best even if the majority thinks number 5 is. But a majority vote is definitely the closest you can come to a determination of something like that; certainly "a few experts" would have far less validity.

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