Quoting: pete910

Supporting the Steam Deck has been a slight challenge at the moment due to it being new technology and having to learn the quirks of a new platform

It's an AMD CPU with an AMD GPU !

Ah I get it, It's not not Intel/Nvidia :tongue:

Heh. I suspect it has more to do with the controller.

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Quoting: randylRegarding Valve, I'm not sure why people would think they would choose Google over AWS or Azure because both of those dwarf Google services by a large margin.

Well, I might be talking through my stylish beret here, but I think there's a distinction to be made between having lots of servers and having widely distributed servers. I don't think latency is such an issue for a lot of the cloud stuff AWS or Azure do. But my understanding is that Google, to have your search results pop up and your Google Doc respond Right Now, has little server groups all over the bloody place. And that they leveraged that to make Stadia have little latency by having people using servers that were physically not that distant. I don't know for sure, but it might be that Amazon and MS' Azure have comparatively few much bigger server farms, which might mean it would be harder, or physically impossible, for them to beat latency issues.
The library I work at has our system in the cloud; I'm in Vancouver and it's hosted 4,000 kilometers away in Toronto (which is sometimes a pain in the ass), and it's only that close because of Canadian privacy laws which basically prohibit Canadians' data being hosted in the US without their explicit consent. I'm thinking that wouldn't work for gaming.

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Quoting: mphuZ

Luna is what a lot of what people hoped / thought Stadia would be initially, with in subscription based to access a growing library of games, rather than Stadia being a store with an optional subscription part.

Actually, I'm waiting for Valve to launch its own streaming service on its servers. You don't need to be a predictor to understand that Steam streaming is Valve's next project after the release of Steam Deck.

I'm waiting for Valve to launch its own streaming service on Google's servers. Last article about Stadia I saw, people were talking about Google planning to basically rent out the Stadia server infrastructure for people to do their own services through. Valve is a big company, but Google has servers bloody everywhere world wide. I don't see anyone else being capable of beating lag as well as Google. They just screwed up their service, and they don't have Steam's library. Put Google's server strength with Valve's gaming strength and you'd have something hard to beat.

Mind you, I really don't want streaming games to take over the world. But if there's going to be a streaming service that does well, I'd rather it was one where I have the option of downloading and playing locally, which is how a Valve service would probably work.

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So they're going to windows with rounded corners. That's nice, I've always rather liked windows with rounded corners. Partly because the tendency for computer stuff to want to look all sharp and technological just because it's computer stuff makes me weary. I never liked Swedish Modern in furniture, I don't see why I should have to look at it all day on my screen. Partly because windows with rounded corners make it easier for me to tell whether my window is maximized properly or if it's actually going off the edge of the screen a bit or something--like, when the corners are square I can't tell if that's actually the corner of the window there at the corner of the screen.

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Quoting: denyasisSome of our specialty programs we occasionally use are Windows only. I do some of our annual training. It's a 1Gb PowerPoint with embedded media, animations, everything made by a co-worker at work. It needs to be updated. Think that'll load on open office? (Spoiler: it crashes).

I seriously do not understand why Linux can seamlessly run ridiculously complex Windows games with absurdly demanding graphics requirements, and can't run the latest Office or Adobe stuff. Like really, WTF? Why can't Wine do this?

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Quoting: gbudnyI don't understand it.

I need some explanation.

Linux is going to be more competitive than Windows - it sounds unrealistic.

Linux has been losing with Apple for the last 16 years. Linux can't even win with one Unix vendor. Really?

Apple has loyal users that aren't magically disappearing. They pay incredible money for the software and games for Mac.

You want to fight about first place on the podium, then first you should know how to win second place. That is the Apple position, and it's not going to be easy to win with them. It's about our wallets.

Who we want to displace, how we want to gain share isn't so much about first, second, third place. Nobody wants to displace Apple or thinks it's plausible we would because of the way their particular schtick works, which is exactly the opposite of how Linux's particular schtick works. Apple's customers are loyal and specifically like the specific thing Apple are doing. They buy Apple because of Apple's strong brand, because they think it's cool, and because Apple does certain things very well that those customers want to do. They actively like that walled garden, which is after all very pretty. You're not going to dislodge that.
But most people who use Windows just use it because it's there. Half of them don't even know what it is. There's no brand loyalty there, it's this big shmoo of people who just "have computers". If they could "have computers" that did pretty much all the same stuff with maybe a bit less annoying nagware and stuff, they'd be fine with that, would in many cases barely notice the difference. That's easy to displace if you've got functionality and a sales channel. There's a ton of room to eat into Windows' market share selling to customers with no brand loyalty whose needs would arguably be served better by Linux. (What with software ecosystem issues, there are also plenty of Windows customers whose needs would not be served better by Linux, even though the OS itself is better)

Thing is, desktop Linux doesn't have a sales channel. And MS have historically gone to significant efforts to make sure it stayed that way.

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A new Document Manager called Thingy.

Does it look like a turnip?

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They really seem to be putting in a good deal of effort. Just how big is this company? I've never been able to get much of an idea of the scale of System76. I've always assumed they were basically pretty small, but they act like they wanna be a competitor to Apple or something.

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So there are some people here, notably CSharp, who simply don't want Linux to have more desktop users.
I have a fundamental difference of, not just opinion, but interests, with those people. Quite simply, if they carry the day, it screws me over. They are computer tinkerers, I am a computer user. My interests are in a smooth desktop experience and a strong software ecosystem (including games). A strong software ecosystem cannot be maintained on ~1-2% desktop market share. It's amazing, and IMO a testament to the open source software development model, that we have as much and as good as we do. But at this level of market share we'll lag forever.

(On the smooth desktop experience, contrary to what you might imagine from some people saying the Linux desktop has to stay hard to use so only real men will use it or whatever, it's actually here already. I guess those people haven't tried Mint. So yeah, you're too late to preserve the tinkerer-only Linux clubhouse paradise, Linux itself is dead easy to use if you're using distros that are seriously intended to be easy to use and competently maintained to that end.)

Now the software ecosystem issue and market share brings me back to the article itself. Bottom line, Liam is right.
I've been saying the same thing for years. Sure, it's more complicated, there's kind of a chicken and egg with the software ecosystem. Like with games, it's hard to get games if you don't have market share and you can't get market share if you don't have games. The rest of the software is the same way. So sure, if, say, Dell just put Linux on all their desktop machines and did nothing else, uptake might be limited because there's a large subset of Windows users who want to use software that doesn't run, or doesn't run easily enough, on Linux.
But there is no escaping this situation without hardware sales and market share. And those are not impossible. For one thing, there's also a large subset of Windows users who don't have any needs that Linux software doesn't meet. With the right marketing you could sell to them. But ideally, what we need is a Valve outside of gaming--someone with objectives that Windows could get in the way of, someone with fears that Microsoft will muscle in on their racket or hold them for ransom at some point, and who will thus be willing to devote some resources to making Linux more viable in some portion of the desktop market, so they can put out the hardware and have people use it.

I think if the Steam Deck succeeds solidly it will make such plays more likely. It will directly increase the size of the Linux desktop-ish market, significantly increase Linux's visibility. But also the whole idea will seem much more plausible. After all, traditionally gaming was what Linux was worst at, so if a Linux gaming appliance is possible, what Linux desktop niche wouldn't be?

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Quoting: vildravnEdit: The only problem with more vendors shipping with Linux as an alternative to Windows is that Microsoft is not just going to take it. Call me cynical but I am fairly sure there'd be kickbacks and incentives involved if that were the case.

There have been before, so yeah.

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