This is why it's important to get past the chicken/egg market share problem. If the Steam Deck, as well as Steam on Chromebooks which could also have an impact, push us over a certain market share (in a way that would not have been possible without Proton), then hopefully native-from-the-start will become a much more common thing.
But if that doesn't work, well, Proton has a definite downside.

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Quoting: scaineOf course, such a ridiculous argument. But somehow Canonical aren't allowed to do it. Only everyone else.

Well, two things about that. First, I think it's the case that there are bits and bits, and some things it really is problematic if there's more than one of them, while others it really isn't. If half of Linux used Wayland and half used Mir, I think that would cause problems.
The other thing is that Canonical do have the tendency when they go with some alternate technology to be saying "This will now be the standard, replacing other existing things"--even when it comes to the stuff that everyone normally agrees it's OK if it comes in multiple flavours. The name "Unity" along with some of the rhetoric around it definitely gave people the impression that they wanted Unity to be the One Desktop To Rule Them All, that everyone should, well, Unite on. Cinnamon on the other hand was just "So, we don't like Gnome 3 much, we preferred for instance Gnome 2, we're gonna make a desktop that does things the way we like".

Quoting: scaineCould Canonical have contributed to Wayland? Nope. They tried to, and their patches were rejected. What were they supposed to do?

I dunno, not contribute to Wayland? There's plenty of stuff Canonical don't contribute to, what makes it corporate suicide in this case?
Or perhaps contribute different patches.

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Quoting: Liam DawePlease keep comments respectful and nice. Some comments have been removed that were clearly going to cause arguments.

Good move. I know I was slowly losing my internal battle and would very likely have soon engaged in exactly those arguments.

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Quoting: whizse

Quoting: EikeThey explicitly said they've got stuff not shown yet. I don't believe in "everything", but "most new" would be great already.

Maybe that's getting the anti-cheat vendors to start supporting Proton?

That we've got a quote on; they specifically said they were working with the anti-cheat vendors to get Proton support for anti-cheat. I believe it was practically in the same breath that they mentioned "stuff not shown yet"; it kind of looks like that's on top of the anti-cheat.
That said, they're not going to get every game working. But it could be significantly more than now.
It would probably be worth having a couple of people go through looking at all the "Gold" or so games and every one that works fine but you have to put some little thingy in the command line, putting that in so it's automatic. Just that would significantly increase how many games Just Work.

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Quoting: Nanobang

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Mohandevir

Go 1v1 against another player (or a CPU) in a fighting mode. With cars. I dunno either, I came up with it while in the shower.

This one is pretty hilarious and sounds really spontaneous! :grin:

Outside the digital realm, there was a classic tabletop tactical game called "Car Wars" which eventually got a roleplaying game version. Just saying, there's always been an appeal to fighting cars. Taps into primal urges to machine-gun that fink tailgating you on the freeway.

OMG --- Steve Jackson Games --- Oh shit! Metagaming! Games that came in plastic bags! Ogre, GEV, Melee, Wizard, Chitin I, One World ... Jeez I miss my California childhood. :(

Y'know, I had dinner with Steve Jackson once.
A friend of mine had put together a game tournament of sorts to run at the local game convention, and he was using GURPS, and he tapped me to GM one of the sessions. It was an interesting idea--basically, he had an overarching plot involving this McGuffin that everyone was after, and three disparate groups getting embroiled in it, mostly separate but ultimately in conflict. So there were three game masters at three tables, plus my friend was co-ordinating and there were a couple of floaters going back and forth between tables to see where things were at. Well, it was a GURPS Cyberpunk game, and Steve Jackson was a guest of honour at the con, and he was giving a talk about how the US Secret Service raided Steve Jackson Games and took all their computers and stuff because they thought GURPS Cyberpunk was a hacking manual. He was main pissed off, they'd actually done a lot of financial damage to Steve Jackson Games because they were trying to police hacking stuff without actually having the faintest clue about it.
I guess because it was a good fit, or maybe he thought it was interesting--anyway, he came to our little tournament and was one of the sort of roving GMs. Afterwards he and about half a dozen of us went for sushi--he had never had sushi and wanted to try it. Seemed like a nice guy; there was a lot of pretty typical gamer-nerd conversation.

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Quoting: hiryuDoesn't seem to happen (so far) when using Nvidia mode. Just when I have Optimus enabled

Clearly we need a better, improved version of Optimus. We could call it "Optimus Prime". :tongue:

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Quoting: Valso

Quoting: Purple Library GuyJust for the record, I use Mint and I've never had any problems with any of that stuff. F'rinstance, Steam installs from the Software Manager with a click. Maybe if you can't even remember the last time you had anything to do with a debian based system, and have never used Mint ever, you should consider your opinions on the subject might lack authority or relevance and, you know, not give them.

Steam installs with a click but that installs only Steam - not the relevant libraries needed for gaming, those you have to install manually.

I have never manually installed any such thing and I have never had games not work.

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Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Valso

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: ValsoYou would have saved the most of the troubles you had, if you had used Arch instead of Mint. Ubuntu, Mint and Debian need an enema in order to make them run any game, not just the VR.

You're skating awfully close to this (excellent) GOL rule:

Distribution wars that have plagued the Linux community are not welcome here. Bans will occur for people who engage in them or talk down to anyone for their choice.

You can find a link to the rules above the comment box.

Also, you're commenting on a year-old article about problems that by all accounts have since been solved. Just in case you didn't notice.

It wasn't my intention to start any war. I used Mint for almost 4 years, so what I said was based on my experience with it.

Each distribution has it's own quirks, and benefits and disadvantages. I've never really used Mint as it's Ubuntu based, and well I've just had issues with Ubuntu, both technical and their NIH syndrome. But you're in correct in stating that they need an enema. I can't even remember the last time I had to do anything on a debian based system (that includes Ubuntu/Pop_OS) to get SteamVR working besides enabling the 32bit architecture repo, enabling the repos for the nvidia drivers (contrib and non-free in Debian) and then installing Steam. Games work perfectly fine after that, as does SteamVR.

Just for the record, I use Mint and I've never had any problems with any of that stuff. F'rinstance, Steam installs from the Software Manager with a click. Maybe if you can't even remember the last time you had anything to do with a debian based system, and have never used Mint ever, you should consider your opinions on the subject might lack authority or relevance and, you know, not give them.

Did I bash Mint?

Yeah, I kind of think you did. And you know, I don't give much of a damn what that other person says, don't know them from a hole in the ground. But from you it kind of stings.
Just by the by, I've tried Ubuntu, not so long ago. The user experience of Mint is really quite a lot different, so saying that because you can't hack Ubuntu you presume Mint sucks by extension is somewhat off base.
It's true though that if you want/need to fiddle everything yourself and make sure you have all the latest and greatest and bleedingest edge all the time, Mint isn't really going to give you what you want. If you just want a nice desktop that works, though, it's very good. Every time I try another distro I find myself with little pain points that I'd forgotten tended to exist on Linux, until I give up and go back to Mint.

The English language is really stupid. But what you have to understand is, English isn't a language. It's two main languages plus chunks of a few others all smoorged together fairly violently. Old Anglo Saxon, French, Norse, Latin, scraps of Gaelic and Greek and who knows what. So there's bits and pieces of a bunch of different languages' pronunciations and grammar rules jammed uneasily side by side and falling off now and then. It's absurd--amazing the damn thing works at all. Means we have stacks of vocabulary, though, which is good for poetry.

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Quoting: denyasis

Quoting: caseinpointgiven that the Deck isn't very powerful when compared to the rest of the consoles - devs will have to port their games to be able to present a passable product to their customers.

Ya, know, this got me thinking, and yes I'm taking it a bit out of context. I remember reading an article about porting to the Switch and how difficult it can be. Part of the reason is that it is under-powered hardware compared to the other available platforms.

The Steam Deck is in the same boat, no?

That is not the opinion I've generally seen, no. I don't know much about this stuff myself, but most of the comments and the claims by Valve suggest that it should be able to run most games fine, given the small not-too-high-res screen. Certainly everyone seems to agree that it's much more powerful than a Switch.

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Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Valso

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: ValsoYou would have saved the most of the troubles you had, if you had used Arch instead of Mint. Ubuntu, Mint and Debian need an enema in order to make them run any game, not just the VR.

You're skating awfully close to this (excellent) GOL rule:

Distribution wars that have plagued the Linux community are not welcome here. Bans will occur for people who engage in them or talk down to anyone for their choice.

You can find a link to the rules above the comment box.

Also, you're commenting on a year-old article about problems that by all accounts have since been solved. Just in case you didn't notice.

It wasn't my intention to start any war. I used Mint for almost 4 years, so what I said was based on my experience with it.

Each distribution has it's own quirks, and benefits and disadvantages. I've never really used Mint as it's Ubuntu based, and well I've just had issues with Ubuntu, both technical and their NIH syndrome. But you're in correct in stating that they need an enema. I can't even remember the last time I had to do anything on a debian based system (that includes Ubuntu/Pop_OS) to get SteamVR working besides enabling the 32bit architecture repo, enabling the repos for the nvidia drivers (contrib and non-free in Debian) and then installing Steam. Games work perfectly fine after that, as does SteamVR.

Just for the record, I use Mint and I've never had any problems with any of that stuff. F'rinstance, Steam installs from the Software Manager with a click. Maybe if you can't even remember the last time you had anything to do with a debian based system, and have never used Mint ever, you should consider your opinions on the subject might lack authority or relevance and, you know, not give them.

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