Quoting: ZlopezYou can do the same on Windows, it's just more difficult.

the entire point of linux is that you CAN customize stuff without worrying about reverse enginering anything, "you can do the same on windows" aply to anything if you put enough effort into it, why are you using linux if "you can do the same on windows"?

Quoting: ZlopezI don't thing even on Linux most cheaters would ever want to mess with their kernel, just to be able to cheat in some game.

sigh.

cheaters dont write their own tools anymore, its not 1998 anymore where most code were bad written to the point that you can just press alt+f4 to skip windows login screen instead of typing user name+ password.
the only reason why we have cheaters nowadays in those big games is because there is a whole industry arround it, millions of persons purchasing softwares writen by thousands of employees.
on linux, those employees can simply fork ubuntu , customize the kernel and relase the "cheatOS".

did you see the issue here?

Quoting: ZlopezPasswords are not software (it's just string and the servers should only store hash and add salt as well), so I don't think the anti-cheat software is just password that should benefit from security by obscurity.

its not password, but its akin to it, in the sense that the security is that you dont know exactly what it does to make sure you arent cheating.

for example, if you knew that it check if you are running any process named: "famousCheatingTool.exe " and if you are, kick you out of the game, then you know that you can just rename famousCheatingTool to famousCheatingTool2.exe or definitelyNotFamousCheatingTool.exe, and dodge the anti cheat solution.

the same goes for any suspect activity on the memory etc.
i dont know how an anti cheat work exaclty, but not knowing is exactly the point, its IMPOSSIBLE to stop people from controlling their own computer, just like DRM didnt stoped people from copying something, it can only delay the stuff.

the main difference here is:
once you break the DRM of one music, you can make as many copies of it as you want.
once you break an anti cheat, you can connect to their servers for a little while,but then they update their software and you have to find another way to break their anti cheat stuff.
meanwhile , they may detect that you were using this cheating solution and ban you, unless the cheating solution figure out that they found their code pattern and change to a new working solution fast enough to avoid the cheating detection and avoid your ban.

Quoting: ZlopezThis is a correct point, but the freedom of one person ends where freedom of others begins. I don't care if people are cheating in online games at all, it's their choice, but they should do it with the permission of others. I cheated multiple times with my friends on LAN parties, but just for fun and with them knowing.

It will be best to just put cheater in the same match with other cheaters, so they can have fun together. :tongue:

to do that you still have to detect that they are cheating.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Doc Angelo

Quoting: elmapulits another thing if you find an cheater in lets say 1 in every 10 matchs.

I'm not sure what kind of games you're playing, but in some games, cheating is already at this level, and worse. Ever played PUBG or Apex?

due, i'm not saying 10 is the exactly number, i dont know what the break point is for each human being, what is the point that he give up playing something, it will vary from person to person, i was just quoting a few numbers to explain the point, not trying to inform the exact number where everything breaks.
i'm not paid to comment on the internet so i will not waste hundredes of hours doing research to reply something.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Doc Angelo

Quoting: elmapuldude fortinite alone has 250 millions of players, and the cheating industry move more money than the entire linux gaming industry (if we assume its 100 smaller than the windows gaming industry)
so yes, he might be right.

i cant remember where i saw the cheating numbers, i think it was one of the valve conferences arround anti-cheating.

What's your argument? He might be right because the player count is high?

i cant believe i have to explain something so simple...
why companies dont invest on linux?
if you port your game to switch, the port cost may be arround "10 millions", but you may earn "100 millions" after the port, if you port to pc, the port cost may be "10 millions" but you earn 150 million after the port.
if you port to linux, the port cost may be 10 million, but you earn 150 thousand dollars, in other words, you spend more porting an game than you eared!

its the same for cheating.
the reason why we have millions of cheaters is not because millions of people know how to hack, its because a few people do, those people make cheating solutions and sell then in the market.
no one will spend time trying to hack an game that has 10 users, unless its dirty easy to hack it (any kid can do type of hacking)
but if one game has dozens or hundreds of millions of players, then you may hire an entire team of hackers, the cost to hack it will be higher (because the company who make the game invest a lot of money in defense) but the profits for hacking it will be higher too.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: mphuZEpic had chances to promote their Fortnite and store on Linux, but they refused themselves, so they go to hell.

The Poles with GOG had enough time to meet the audience, who most of all promoted the position of DRM-free. But for years they've been wiping their feet on us, so go to hell.

Humble.. Well, just go to hell.

As a result, on Linux we have only two time-tested stores that really care about the platform: Steam and itch.io :wink:

dude...
people already have an big game library on GOG, epic, etc, if those stores dont work on linux, most people will dump linux rather than the store.
fortinite alone has 250 millions of players, that is more than 10x what linux have of users, what is the most likely scenario here?
that steam deck sell a lot but most people install windows on it, sell a lot and people keep steamOS on it, or it flop?

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: CorbenI can't believe it... this statement renders all efforts from Valve bringing these games to Linux or the Deck worthless...

calm down, not all games have an install base as big as fortinite, in fact fortinite is the biggerst one.
if an game has lets say 1~10 millionss of users it may worth support linux.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Doc AngeloI'm not buying it. Sweeney says a lot of stupid stuff to win an argument. Especially around Linux.

"Sweeney is not saying it's not suitable as a whole, just that Fortnite is a massive target for cheaters"

I rest my case. This is so stupid, I'm out of words. Who believes crap like that?

(I want to add that I'm not saying that Sweeney is generally dumb or doesn't have knowledge about game development. I'm just saying that he has a very strong opinion, and starts to lie his way through an argument until he thinks he won it. There are people like that, and Sweeney is just one example. He's human after all.)

dude fortinite alone has 250 millions of players, and the cheating industry move more money than the entire linux gaming industry (if we assume its 100 smaller than the windows gaming industry)
so yes, he might be right.

i cant remember where i saw the cheating numbers, i think it was one of the valve conferences arround anti-cheating.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: rustybroomhandleI would love to know how much cheating from Linux users there are on something like Overwatch who have their own cheat prevention.

the issue is not that linux users use cheat, its that cheaters may start using linux just to cheat.

and that is not a big problem if you only find one cheatter in ever 1000 matches that you do, its anoying but rare enough that it dont make a difference.
its another thing if you find an cheater in lets say 1 in every 10 matchs.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: damarrinHe doesn’t have to support all the various kernel configs, just the official SD one. Isn’t that what the chain of trust is for? Detect signed software and work, don’t and don’t.

in that case, fortinite would be an steamdeck exclusive in the context of linux...

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: ZlopezStrange how the insecure Windows, which is targeted by every malware out there is actually more secure for anti-cheat :-D

completely different thing.
one thing is to find an way to run insecure code in an kernel, exploiting its security holes, that is what windows malwares do, the malware capabilities will be limited by the size of the hole, for example, maybe they can control some components of the kernel but no others, and maybe they can do what they want to do without the need of touching the kernel.

on linux on the other hand, you have full access to customize your own kernel code.
you dont need an malware exploiting kernel features to dodge the anti cheat, you can rewrite the code of the kernel to exploit it!

Quoting: ZlopezIf they had the anti-cheat software open, it could benefit from free fixes done by the people in open source community.

that is like having an open source password.
security by obscurity DO WORK for passwords.

Quoting: ZlopezIt's not a coincidence that the best security libraries are open source (and the linux is dominating the server world).

its not a matter of security here, its a matter of freedom, open source softwares is great to allow the user to do whatever he want, and doing whatever he want in that context is CHEATING on an online game.
anti cheat software is akin to proprietary in the sense that it want to limit what the user can or cant do, its also akin to DRM.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

how ironic...
the more users linux have, the more likely it is that many game developers will support it.
at the same time, the more players an specific game have, the less likely it is that it will support linux.

what about server side anti cheat? its possible to do the validation server only?

"With that in mind, you're going to need Windows or to stream it via GeForce NOW on the Steam Deck."
again, what about server side anti cheat?

anyway, people still can play fortinite on their phones, so its not a massive loss...
wait a minute, isnt android linux based?

in any case, fortinite has 250 millions of players, that alone might be enough to kill steamOS.
imagine if steamdeck sell as much of an switch, but most players install windows on it to play fortinite, sigh.

View this comment - View article - View full comments