Quoting: trawzI'm learning some Ruby at the moment to develop a website with Rails, coming from some C# ASP.NET MVC 5 experience it's pretty good and much more Linux-friendly so far. Game development with it also sounds Interesting to say the least!

I really wish the game industry as a whole wasn't trending towards C#. Oh well.

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Quoting: BielFPs

Quoting: DerpFoxI personally love Ruby, way more that Python for exemple. But compared to python it look like its in a semi state of abandonment. Most of the Gems have not been update in years. And the final blow is RoR that have stained Ruby reputation, every single devs I know despise RoR and each time Ruby is mentioned they push it away because of RoR.

Compared to the very lively Python community Ruby look in a very sad state.

While Python is more used since it's very similar to shell script, Ruby Sadly isn't used very often because RoR and because most developers have difficulty to use a fully OO language I think.

How is python similar to Shell script?

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Quoting: psi29a

Quoting: ScooptaI really want a project like this for Skyrim.

That's what OpenMW is shooting for... have a read from one of our recent blog posts:
https://openmw.org/2019/followers-of-shadows/ [External Link]

If you're still not convinced... then head to the forums and look at the youtube links showing OpenMW running (bits of) Oblivion, Skyrim and Fallout3.

https://forum.openmw.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3017&start=280#p62043 [External Link]

There is still more work to do, so obviously many hands makes small work. Join us! Let's make this happen! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWPAGuPsQ4A [External Link] <-- OpenMW's Whiterun

Tbh I don't do C++ otherwise I'd love to. That language is like demon spawn haha. Just my opinion.

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I really want a project like this for Skyrim.

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: ScooptaYes complaining about it and then recommending it is hypocritical but I guess that just shows the state of Linux gaming.

I think you made my whole point for me there ;)

Lol I'm sure I did.

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Scoopta

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ScooptaIn my opinion voting for Linux with your wallet through proton is kinda like sending mixed messages. "I'm here give me games" but also "I'll take non-native games so don't bother porting."

It's voting against Linux support, really, because you're showing them that you're on Linux but will pay them regardless for a Windows game and regardless of the fact they aren't supporting Linux, like you said.

That thought completely ignores the fact that you only pay for the game if it works on Linux.
Nobody would pay for a Windows-only game planning to play it via Steam Play if it doesn't run via Proton. Or they do, notice that it won't run and refund - no money lost in that case.
Either way will show both Valve and the developer that their game is being used (or at least tried) on Linux. Which is an infinite amount more than what would have happened without Wine (or rather Proton), in which case the dev never would have known Linux even existed.

It also ignores that the ONLY way for Linux market share growth (within gaming) is supporting as many titles as possible. And for a user thinking about using Linux for a change, and most already using Linux, it doesn't matter in the end HOW that happens (which is why services like Stadia are an interesting take as well).
Natively, this will simply never happen. There will be the odd natively developed game, as it has always been, and that's cool, but that has never lifted the Linux percentage by any significant amount.

In the end, all that matters is that you get to play the game. Convenience wins, usually.

I'm certain we'll see (hopefully before 2030 in Valve time...) some statistics by Valve showing what effect Steam Play had.
I do not see a single possible negative outcome of it. Even if it resulted in fewer native games, the number would be offset incredibly by the amount supported via Steam Play. The whitelisted games alone would probably already have that effect.

Quoting: GuestPaying for Proton games directly hurts you by not giving you support like normal gamers get, and it sends the exact wrong message and discourages future Linux support because you're decreasing the number of gamers willing to pay for Linux support by paying for Windows support instead.

That is incredibly theoretical to the point of irrelevance.
What support are you talking about? The vast majority of bugs are game logic related or appear on other platforms as well. The other kind of bugs will give the ProtonDB rating a lower score so only very few people are going to "fall for it" anyway.

You don't see reduced native games as a problem? Really? So you don't care if Linux just becomes a kerenel for Win32? I guess the upside is it's FOSS Win32? You still need the MS DX runtime and MS VC++ redist which are proprietary and developed by, you know, MS. I think proton is a good market share driver, I really do, but I also think it's dangerous if it starts lowering native releases because I don't want to depend on Win32/Wine for my games.

Seriously where does this attitude come from? This attitude you have and plenty of others, is as if we had a huge amount of support before Steam Play and the fact is we really didn't and still don't.

Aspyr practically stopped, Virtual Programming don't do much either and when they do it's pretty poor, Feral gradually slowed down too and...you can see where I am going right? I really don't see this magical land where Linux ever had a lot of support to begin with. We struggle to even get a lot of good indies to support us and when they do, the answer 99% of the time is that it wasn't actually worth it.

I think people seriously need a reality check on all this.

Native is good, Steam Play is good. Let people enjoy gaming on Linux. That's what we stand for and will continue to do so.

One other thing I want to be clear about. These are my personal feelings and stance however like I said I think proton is a good market share driver. These are my beliefs but I still tell my Windows friends to switch, I use proton as a selling point, if they ask about a game I'll look it up on proton db for them. Proton is better than windows in every way and I will gladly use it as a market share driver. I just personally have mixed feelings about it. I personally think it's a double edged sword however I'm not willing to cut off my nose to spite my face. I'm just stating my issues with it. Yes complaining about it and then recommending it is hypocritical but I guess that just shows the state of Linux gaming. I want it to be better than it is :/. I also wish there were more FOSS games but there aren't.

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Scoopta

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ScooptaIn my opinion voting for Linux with your wallet through proton is kinda like sending mixed messages. "I'm here give me games" but also "I'll take non-native games so don't bother porting."

It's voting against Linux support, really, because you're showing them that you're on Linux but will pay them regardless for a Windows game and regardless of the fact they aren't supporting Linux, like you said.

That thought completely ignores the fact that you only pay for the game if it works on Linux.
Nobody would pay for a Windows-only game planning to play it via Steam Play if it doesn't run via Proton. Or they do, notice that it won't run and refund - no money lost in that case.
Either way will show both Valve and the developer that their game is being used (or at least tried) on Linux. Which is an infinite amount more than what would have happened without Wine (or rather Proton), in which case the dev never would have known Linux even existed.

It also ignores that the ONLY way for Linux market share growth (within gaming) is supporting as many titles as possible. And for a user thinking about using Linux for a change, and most already using Linux, it doesn't matter in the end HOW that happens (which is why services like Stadia are an interesting take as well).
Natively, this will simply never happen. There will be the odd natively developed game, as it has always been, and that's cool, but that has never lifted the Linux percentage by any significant amount.

In the end, all that matters is that you get to play the game. Convenience wins, usually.

I'm certain we'll see (hopefully before 2030 in Valve time...) some statistics by Valve showing what effect Steam Play had.
I do not see a single possible negative outcome of it. Even if it resulted in fewer native games, the number would be offset incredibly by the amount supported via Steam Play. The whitelisted games alone would probably already have that effect.

Quoting: GuestPaying for Proton games directly hurts you by not giving you support like normal gamers get, and it sends the exact wrong message and discourages future Linux support because you're decreasing the number of gamers willing to pay for Linux support by paying for Windows support instead.

That is incredibly theoretical to the point of irrelevance.
What support are you talking about? The vast majority of bugs are game logic related or appear on other platforms as well. The other kind of bugs will give the ProtonDB rating a lower score so only very few people are going to "fall for it" anyway.

You don't see reduced native games as a problem? Really? So you don't care if Linux just becomes a kerenel for Win32? I guess the upside is it's FOSS Win32? You still need the MS DX runtime and MS VC++ redist which are proprietary and developed by, you know, MS. I think proton is a good market share driver, I really do, but I also think it's dangerous if it starts lowering native releases because I don't want to depend on Win32/Wine for my games.

Seriously where does this attitude come from? This attitude you have and plenty of others, is as if we had a huge amount of support before Steam Play and the fact is we really didn't and still don't.

Aspyr practically stopped, Virtual Programming don't do much either and when they do it's pretty poor, Feral gradually slowed down too and...you can see where I am going right? I really don't see this magical land where Linux ever had a lot of support to begin with. We struggle to even get a lot of good indies to support us and when they do, the answer 99% of the time is that it wasn't actually worth it.

I think people seriously need a reality check on all this.

Native is good, Steam Play is good. Let people enjoy gaming on Linux. That's what we stand for and will continue to do so.

The attitude? It's because I don't want to game in a Windows emulator on Linux...that's what wine is. It doesn't emulate hardware but it's a windows emulator. I came to Linux to get away from windows and Wine is just FOSS windows without the kernel.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ScooptaIn my opinion voting for Linux with your wallet through proton is kinda like sending mixed messages. "I'm here give me games" but also "I'll take non-native games so don't bother porting."

It's voting against Linux support, really, because you're showing them that you're on Linux but will pay them regardless for a Windows game and regardless of the fact they aren't supporting Linux, like you said.

That thought completely ignores the fact that you only pay for the game if it works on Linux.
Nobody would pay for a Windows-only game planning to play it via Steam Play if it doesn't run via Proton. Or they do, notice that it won't run and refund - no money lost in that case.
Either way will show both Valve and the developer that their game is being used (or at least tried) on Linux. Which is an infinite amount more than what would have happened without Wine (or rather Proton), in which case the dev never would have known Linux even existed.

It also ignores that the ONLY way for Linux market share growth (within gaming) is supporting as many titles as possible. And for a user thinking about using Linux for a change, and most already using Linux, it doesn't matter in the end HOW that happens (which is why services like Stadia are an interesting take as well).
Natively, this will simply never happen. There will be the odd natively developed game, as it has always been, and that's cool, but that has never lifted the Linux percentage by any significant amount.

In the end, all that matters is that you get to play the game. Convenience wins, usually.

I'm certain we'll see (hopefully before 2030 in Valve time...) some statistics by Valve showing what effect Steam Play had.
I do not see a single possible negative outcome of it. Even if it resulted in fewer native games, the number would be offset incredibly by the amount supported via Steam Play. The whitelisted games alone would probably already have that effect.

Quoting: GuestPaying for Proton games directly hurts you by not giving you support like normal gamers get, and it sends the exact wrong message and discourages future Linux support because you're decreasing the number of gamers willing to pay for Linux support by paying for Windows support instead.

That is incredibly theoretical to the point of irrelevance.
What support are you talking about? The vast majority of bugs are game logic related or appear on other platforms as well. The other kind of bugs will give the ProtonDB rating a lower score so only very few people are going to "fall for it" anyway.

You don't see reduced native games as a problem? Really? So you don't care if Linux just becomes a kerenel for Win32? I guess the upside is it's FOSS Win32? You still need the MS DX runtime and MS VC++ redist which are proprietary and developed by, you know, MS. I think proton is a good market share driver, I really do, but I also think it's dangerous if it starts lowering native releases because I don't want to depend on Win32/Wine for my games.

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Quoting: Hori

Quoting: LinasI understand the importance of Steam Play and Proton, but is this really Linux gaming newsworthy? I personally don't think so, but I'd like to hear other options.

Well the website is called GamingOnLinux, not NativeGamingOnLinux. So yeah, it's newsworthy. In addition, most people just want to play games on Linux, regardless of being native or not.

Only covering native titles would be very... narrow, and simply not enough. Steam Play is here to stay and it is only getting bigger. It won't be too long until the bulk of the Linux gaming will be done through Steam Play.

Simply not enough? I don't think this site covered non-native games before proton. They covered wine releases but I don't ever recall seeing an article regarding a game on wine.

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Quoting: johndoeI love posts about SteamPlay!
Because there was no single title over 6 months released on Linux I had interest.

I also think that googles Stadia will be successfull - they have the money, the resources and manpower. Valve will get hard times soon.

Should google be successful NO one will need a gaming rig anymore... you simply buy a cool and big TV and their "Stadia" client comes preinstalled!!!
This is the future and as long as I KNOW that all this runs on Linux (and Debian) makes me feel happy/comfortable.

These are my 5 cents.

I would never give up my compute power. IMO that's just maddness.

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