Question: On the Deck, is VK_EXT_graphics_pipeline_library always enabled for Proton (8) games or must I manually add RADV_PERFTEST=gpl?

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Quoting: m2mg2Make an argument or don't, calling something FUD is a cop out because you probably have no good argument to make.

Don't spread FUD then you won't be called out.

To quote the project:

gnome-info-collect is not currently collecting information. Installation is not recommended at this time.

This alone invalidates your whole argument about ignoring the input.

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Quoting: m2mg2Can you name anything that improved leaps and bounds after starting to collect telemetry? Gnome does telemetry but they continuously ignore the obvious will of users to do what they want instead.

No, they're not. Stop spreading FUD.

Quoting: ValckAnd while none of that was specifically about Fedora and its flavour of "telemetry", it all applies just the same, as the comment about the Gnome devs perfectly illustrates. And Fedora the Linux distribution is so much more encompassing than just Gnome the desktop environment.
"Telemetry" certainly is not about aiding the users and improving their experience.

That's FUD, too. Just stop it.

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Quoting: GuestEmulation =/= Piracy
Stop trying to equate it.
I've even given the most common reason for emulation: convenience.
Whether it be traveling or just wanting to quickly experience an old classic, emulation makes it much easier to do.

A download from a random source is always "piracy". The source is not allowed to provide the download. That's a fact.

/edit: Added quotes

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Quoting: Smoke39So when it comes to enforcing copyright it's serious business and the law is absolute, but when it comes to keeping art alive and accessible it's "just video games" and so not eligible even for consideration. What a convenient double standard.

It's art to signify the importance of preservation. But when we're talking about expressing the art (this includes the platform it's released on), it's suddenly just a product & anything goes. How convenient.

Quoting: GuestNo, but as a consumer, we have the right to keep a copy of a game we've purchased, and that's what we're fighting for.

You can make a copy if you can make a copy. That doesn't mean I'm allowed to download a cracked game from my Steam games.

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Quoting: MrowlSure, Steam is huge, but so is Google Play:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.dolphinemu.dolphinemu [External Link]

And as you can see, it has 5 million+ downloads there.

I will continue to believe the Deck played a part, because Nintendo genuinely fears it: they know there's a lot more harware similarity and software overlap with the Deck, than there is with smartphones and other devices.

You don't know if & what Nintendo did to take the app down. Given the negative ratings it seems to have some problems, too. But yes, you're right: Nintendo fears Steam more than Google Play. Case in point: Nintendo did release mobile games, on foreign platforms.

Believe what you want, but there is no indication it's related to the Deck. I doubt Nintendo sees it currently as any threat since it's not a mass market device.

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Quoting: MrowlEither way, the emulator is already out there and used by millions on Android and PC, etc, why Nintendo chose this moment to go after it is quite hilarious and petty.

Is it really that hard to understand significance of a release on the biggest PC gaming platform? It has nothing to do with the Deck.

Quoting: tuubiNonsense. Game preservation essentially means keeping games playable on modern hardware. It's not a hard concept to grasp. Emulation is an important part of it, for obvious reasons.

Right, for a current gen hardware, still in production, it's all about "preservation":

Quoting: MrowlAnd for a lot of people - especially those who find Nintendo to be a scummy, litigious company - they're just going to buy a powerful handheld PC and emulate all of Nintendo's games - and frankly, good on them

Quoting: benstor214Edit: I will uphold my personal opinion as long as honest game preservationists are accused of piracy. It really is a simple concept.

If you need more examples of this, look at the older Switch emulator thread. "Preservation" of this kind is especially difficult since you require a Switch to get to the games…

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Quoting: scaineYou certainly appear to care, as your various replies attest.

How about reading & understanding what I'm complaining about? To quote myself: "Do whatever you want to do, I don't care."

Quoting: scaineGood luck with your "arguments". Please remember that you're trying to convince free and open source advocates of the legitimacy of anti-consumerism from a company valued at over $50B. I'm not here to tell you to stop, but think about how that's going to land, please.

We're talking about proprietary games on a site mostly promoting a proprietary service for proprietary games requiring a proprietary client. "But I run Linux" is a really shallow argument (for what actually?).

Quoting: tuubiHah! Somehow I knew you'd cite this. I don't see how that bears any legal or ethical relevance. You're still running a game on an unsupported operating system, using software other than what the game was made for, and possibly even on a different hardware platform. What difference does it make if the game was originally made for Windows or for the Switch?

Nintendo sees a violation, everyone else is not. With Proton it's even easier: Any developer on Steam, believing in a violation, will report directly to Valve as responsible entity.

Quoting: tuubiI think I saw Roblox mentioned in the title of a GOL article, so I'm guessing it's a game. But what sort of "concerns about the usage" of some Mario game should Nintendo have if someone wants to run it on a PC in the privacy of their own home? Or maybe you mean they might be concerned about the existence of software that makes it possible?

Nintendo is a for profit company, any concerns will probably be about losing profits (they are losing hardware sales). Hacking is another concern.

Quoting: tuubiThe developer is the car maker. I'm simply trying to explain why this analogy does not work. There's no equivalence, because driving in traffic without a permit is clearly illegal. Emulating a game is not, to my knowledge.

It doesn't work because you changed the analogy. There is no car maker in the analogy, the analogy is about means (owning a car or a system capable of running the game) & permission (driving without permit, licensing of the software).

And at no point did I ever claim anything was illegal. I'm strictly talking about "pirating" (emphasis on the quotes) & license violations.

Quoting: tuubiThat's probably true in your average corporate dystopia. In the slightly less dystopic environment I happen to reside in, I am free to ignore license terms if they conflict with laws and regulations. An agreement or contract is binding only as far as it is legal. For example, it's safe to disregard the fairly common EULA clause prohibiting personal backups if you live in the EU. I think it's actually considered "fair use" even in the (considerably more corporate) US. It's not my decision, but neither is it the licensor's. I don't have to sue to exercise my rights as a consumer.

Here's a couple of sources that seem to support my points. There are probably better sources, but it's late and these are what DDG picked for me.

Whether you actually own a game you paid for is neither here nor there, because you're not sharing unauthorized copies or whatever if all you do is play them on different hardware.

Maybe it's allowed. But there is still no clarification. Obviously the whole argument is a biased interpretation, e.g.:

[…] These circumstances are effectively the same we saw for dumping BIOS, except that
they are more easily satisfied in the case of dumping ROMs, because there are no problems now with
potential availability of the information necessary to achieve interoperability according to article 6
(1) (b) – videogames are usually not supplied with this kind of information and no problems usually
arise with usage of such information to develop, produce or market a computer program substantially
similar in its expression in accordance with article 6 (2) (c) – emulator developers are usually not
game developers. […]

I'm missing the interpretation of article 6 (3):

In accordance with the provisions of the Berne Convention for the protection of Literary and Artistic Works, the provisions of this Article may not be interpreted in such a way as to allow its application to be used in a manner which unreasonably prejudices the right holder's legitimate interests or conflicts with a normal exploitation of the computer program.

Quoting: tuubiSeems like you're still arguing against piracy, not emulation.

I'm not arguing against or for either. I'm arguing against the notion people act in "self-defence". There is no reason to play Nintendo games. If you consider them anti-consumer then ignore them. Vote with you wallet.

Quoting: tuubiYou don't get to write a paragraph in support of a weak analogy and then tell others to ignore it. You walk away first!

It's not my fault that you put words into my mouth.

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Quoting: tuubiThere's one question I'd like answered by people against console emulation: How do you feel about people running Windows software on Wine/Proton? How and why is it any different, ethically or legally? How much am I allowed to deviate from the intended target platform until I'm hurting some corporation's feelings?

"Wine Is Not an Emulator". And I don't think you violate any licenses. You can download & run the unmodified binaries from the official sources. Just as Nintendo, a developer can take (legal) actions if they have concerns about the usage (e.g. Roblox).

Quoting: tuubiIt's not. A car maker can't tell you where or how you are allowed to drive their product. Traffic laws and driving permits are irrelevant to the discussion, as they have a very different scope and purpose. Emulating a game does not endanger public safety.

It is. The car maker is not part of the analogy. The analogy is about rules & that just the means is not enough of a justification. You need a permit to drive in public streets. You don't own the software you buy & are bound by its license. Both is regulated by law.

Whether the license is valid or not is not of importance since it's not your decision. You can only initialize a review.

But as I said: Ignore the analogy, it's not important.

Quoting: scaineThat's an incredibly privileged position. A few of the studies I've skimmed talk about why piracy is rampant either in countries where the pirated material isn't sold, or the living wage is so low that it rules out legitimate purchase of (that kind of) leisure material.

Sure, not everyone is in that boat, and I'm sure a lot of rationalisation is happening. But globally, there's a myriad of reasons for piracy. Emulation, perhaps not so much, I haven't considered it much. But I'm sure are plenty of cases there too.

I don't care if you emulate or "pirate" anything. I onl argue against the justifications about it. Nobody is forced to play anything.

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Quoting: tuubiThis is a pretty bad analogy. You don't need a permit to drive your car or comply with traffic laws on your own private land.

No, I think it's still ok. A car on private property is just an exception with limited usage, the main purpose is transportation on public streets. I wouldn't argue against license violation for research reasons. Development of the emulator itself is not necessary wrong. Besides: If you don't like it, just ignore it, it's not an important part of the argument.

Quoting: Smoke39The fundamental mistake underpinning your reasoning is that you're completely ignoring the power dynamics of capitalism. You keep appealing to people's rights under the law, but the law is disproportionately shaped by the owner class. The game is rigged, and you're wagging your finger at people for not following its bogus rules, even as those who rigged it continue to win despite that defiance.

Also copyleft isn't so much an assertion of copyright as it is an assertion against it. It's not inconsistent to support an assertion of freedom at the same time as excusing defiance of restriction.

No, I'm wagging the finger at hypocrites who try to disguise that they're simply cheapskates. Do whatever you want to do, I don't care. But don't rationalize your behaviour with an imaginary fight for freedom. You can live your live without playing Nintendo games on your PC, you're not resisting anything by playing Nintendo games on your PC.

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