I think it's also important to point out that there is FOSS available through Steam. As I said, the TOS are not 100% applicable in 100% cases, even if the TOS were to be interpreted the way Shmerl interprets them. It's also important to point out that almost any TOS has some shady/misinterpretable parts, and while discussing this, we found parts in Valves TOS and in GOGs TOS that were not 100% clear and could be abused.

I'm sure everybody agrees that software like Godot or Krita or games like Teeworlds or Zero-K are not being "DRMed" by Steam and that they would press charges if you make a backup of them... or even make a copy for a friend.

The developers choose to make those softwares freely available. The developers of some games on Steam chose not to use DRM. For me, it's as simple as that, and I think I can't say anymore on this matter. Everything has been said.

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Quoting: GuestRebellion, with Sega as publisher. Demo was AvP (2010).

I assume it was this game and demo: https://steamdb.info/app/34200/depots/ [External Link]

Just out of interest: Did you really check the file system and all the files and the directory were gone? Or was the directory still there, and the last update was just "empty" and therefor updated the game directory with completely nothing - essentially deleting all files (except the directory)?

After some googling, I only found some demos and games that were delisted in the store, but still downloadable and accessible for people who already owned it.

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Quoting: GuestYes, I have a source. Me. In details here, it was a demo, downloaded via Steam itself. It was later decided (either by Valve themselves, or a ratings board) that the demo wasn't suitable for the country. The next time I fired up Steam, the game (demo, in this case) was summarily removed in its entirety - without notification to me. I had to go hunting for what happened.

Thanks for the answer! Out of interest: Which developer decided to do that and which game was it?

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Quoting: GuestNeg. I mean they can delete your access to the game, and remove it from your hard drive entirely.

Never heard of that. Why would they do that? Do you have a source for that?

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Quoting: GuestNot necessarily. The games may depend on Steam features or libraries (there are games I cannot run because the "steam runtime" libs are borked).

There are some games that need specific libraries to run. That's an old problem with Linux gaming. I remember that I had to run Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri with a line like this: "LD_PRELOAD=/path/to/libraries ./SMAX". I bought this game retail on a disc, not for or via Steam. If anything, Valve made this more easy with their libs. A lot, I think.

If a game has certain features like leader boards or achievement but works otherwise, there is no problem if it still works as intended.

If there is no mechanism preventing you from copying the game files to another machine (without Steam installed) and the game still runs, there are DRM issues.

Quoting: GuestAnd you have to manually copy away from any Steam control. Otherwise Valve can basically delete your game anytime they want.

I assume you are talking about keys from various reseller sites that get deactivated when there was fraud involved. That of course sucks, but I made it a habit to never buy keys from dubious sources.

Apart from that, I never heard that Valve removed a game from a library.

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Quoting: GuestA storefront that can remove titles from your hard drive without your permission is, to me, if not DRM in name, then DRM in nature.
The reliance on Steam for many games is just as bad. No Steam? Can't play. Sometimes that turns into no Steam online, can't play. Technicalities aside, it's worth remembering that you can only play your games so long as Valve permit, and while it's technically possible to unhook some titles from Steam via (country dependent) legal personal backups, Valve don't exactly encourage that. Nothing against Valve there, more that people should really be more aware of what Steam really is.

I mean, this thread got derailed so much anyway, what the hell.

You're not wrong regarding DRMed titles on Steam. But this talk is about games on Steam without DRM. You can play those whenever you like.

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That means I'm not allowed to make a copy of this application: https://store.steampowered.com/app/404790/ [External Link]

This really shows that legal speech is not literal 100% fit for *every and all* cases in real life. That's just how it is. Ideally, it should be, and I think everybody agrees on that. But I don't think it's possible every time. Every single legal document has this problem.

Edit: As English is not my native tongue: What does "may not" mean? Shouldn't it be "must not" for a definitive "don't ever do this"?

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Quoting: axredneckSize of the game in Steam is 0 bytes.
And strangely it's in my library though i didn't buy it.

Even more strange: It's not visible in my library, yet the store page says I own it. It doesn't turn up in my purchase history, neither Steam nor HumbleBundle. When I click "Play Now", it installs it within a second and can't be started because of "missing executable". (Note: Just tried this on Windows because I'm on that partition right now.)

Apart from that: Looks nice and the soundtrack reminds me of the good old 90ies tracks. Nice one! I really want to buy it... if I don't already own it. Well... I kinda wish that I don't own it yet, because such projects need financial support! :D

Edit: There is a Swordfish II model on the workshop... I can't not buy this...!!!

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Quoting: tuubiI'm not very familiar with Firewatch (it's still on my wishlist and I'm good at avoiding spoilers), but to me it seems Valve is gathering narrative design talent for their upcoming games.

I didn't like Firewatch very much for the story and that one character, but the game was made really well. Very good execution of new ideas. The gameplay was really hitting my sweet spot. I can't wait what games Valve will do in the future.

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Quoting: Comandante ÑoñardoWith Steam, You have three months for to download your entire library too.. Once Steam is down, you can play offline most of the games on that machine.. Even you can move some games to another machine and play them without the client...
But that's all.. even if you manually copy all your library to new PC, You will need to authenticate your Steam account credentials on that machine, but You can't, because Steam is down...
That's it.. You loose the games you paid for...

This is why I purchased Firewatch on GOG... And, as long as I have my backup, even if GOG is shut down, the game Is mine for the years to come.. ^_^

If you download Firewatch with Steam and back the game directory up, you can also play it for ever - no matter what happens to Steam or Valve. I don't understand why you still believe that this is not true. Test it for yourself (if you have Steam games without DRM). I've tested it with a few small indie games. It simply works.

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