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Latest Comments by ObsidianBlk
Transhuman Design has removed the Linux version of BUTCHER due to issues in favour of Steam Play (updated)
23 September 2018 at 3:26 am UTC

appetrosyanI think you shouldn't be outraged over the fact - they pulled the game, as much as why they pulled the game. Essentially, they had a dev. team consisting of one person. One person to write the code, one person to test, one person to debug and one person to maintain. You complain about a people not wearing safety glasses when picking uranium. Don't you see the massive leap here?

One person or one thousand... doesn't matter. They go public, they're promising they can support what they release. If the one guy they have couldn't handle it, they should not have tried. In this case... it seems "they changed their minds" so the argument for this game, for now, is moot.


appetrosyan
QuoteI give developers who pull stunts like this no quarter.

Then don't buy games from small studios. Don't buy games with proprietary source code, and actively tell game developers that you expect them to have done their research, before buying the game.

Or... you know, you call studios out for any crap they pull (whether the studio is large, small, one person, or one thousand plus). They're trying to make money on their products, and we're spending money on these products. I'm not saying we should be calling the devs names, or sending them death threats... but I feel we really need to stop this "well, at least they tried" crap.

Transhuman Design has removed the Linux version of BUTCHER due to issues in favour of Steam Play (updated)
22 September 2018 at 2:27 pm UTC

liamdaweUpdate: They changed their minds on this, they've put the native version back up. See here.

Glad to hear it. Let's hope they don't flake out again.

Transhuman Design has removed the Linux version of BUTCHER due to issues in favour of Steam Play (updated)
22 September 2018 at 2:22 pm UTC

appetrosyan
ObsidianBlk
Whitewolfe80The decision makes sense if for example they do not have in the inhouse ability to fix the issues, and do not deem it financially viable to hire in those skills. Or two they looked at the game sales on linux and looked at the cost of support and just said its cheaper and easier to let it run via wine that way we dont even have to support it. As long as they dont dramatically change the windows code the wine version will just keep on trucking.

The decision is lazy, cowardly, and destroys trust.
They should have done their research on Linux and their engine's history with the platform before ever adding Linux as a target platform. Given that they released a Linux binary, I'm going to assume they actually did their research... so their sales numbers on the platform be damned, honestly.

Mate, that's the exact attitude why we still don't have the Witcher 3. Itis lazy, and it does show incompetence in the port, however, if you have a game engine with native support, what you end-up doing, is delegating an entire Feral Interactive's worth of work to just one person. The real issue isn't the cop-out, but the fact that Windows binaries are developed and tested with way more resources. Don't be angry at the developer, at least they had the decency to admit, that they can't do it, instead of having a broken game on the storefront, or so they say.
-

ObsidianBlkThey should have the pride and self respect to maintain that binary and take ownership when issues arise. What decisions like this tell me is when the code gets tough, they bail. If this were a bug on the Windows side, you bet your bottom dollar they'd be trying to get to the bottom of it. If it's Unity, they'd be hounding Unity for a fix (or fix it themselves if they have direct source access... not sure if Unity gives that option). Even if they put out a "we're sorry, we're working with the Unity team, but for now Linux users are stuck on an older version", fine... but no... they pulled their work as if it never existed and washed their hands.

Would you maintain a binary by hand, without pay, when an automatic tool ddoes that job better.

I do, however disagree that maintaining and delegating are the only two options. Make it open-source, have the guy who found a fix be able to fix it, and take credit.

What's the reason they haven't ported Witcher 3? CDPR didn't promise a Linux version. They didn't release a Linux version then pull it, sighting some lame excuse. I assume they did their research and concluded that Linux wasn't a viable option. Oh well. They never lied or reneged, so... I'm not seeing where you were going with that.

Proton doesn't maintain or fix the binary for you. It's a wrapper around Windows... it's glorified WINE. On top of that, the company is not obligated to confirm their Windows binary remains functional via Proton. So even if the game works for most at the point of whitelisting, if the developers make a change that breaks with Proton, "oh well".

And where are you getting "without pay" from? The game was for sale. Linux users were paying them for their game. This game was not a charity, it was a product. Again, I don't care what the Linux demographic size is compared to Windows. That goes back to my last statement about the developers doing their damn research before committing to Linux in the first place. If they didn't like the size of the demographic, then don't release for the platform.

Does it suck that not as many developers release for Linux as I'd like? Hell yes. What hurts Linux more, though, is when someone new to Linux comes in, sees a game they want, then has that game pulled from them. How could anyone trust our platform for gaming if game developers treat it like that?

I give developers who pull stunts like this no quarter.

Transhuman Design has removed the Linux version of BUTCHER due to issues in favour of Steam Play (updated)
22 September 2018 at 5:03 am UTC

Whitewolfe80The decision makes sense if for example they do not have in the inhouse ability to fix the issues, and do not deem it financially viable to hire in those skills. Or two they looked at the game sales on linux and looked at the cost of support and just said its cheaper and easier to let it run via wine that way we dont even have to support it. As long as they dont dramatically change the windows code the wine version will just keep on trucking.

The decision is lazy, cowardly, and destroys trust.
They should have done their research on Linux and their engine's history with the platform before ever adding Linux as a target platform. Given that they released a Linux binary, I'm going to assume they actually did their research... so their sales numbers on the platform be damned, honestly.

They should have the pride and self respect to maintain that binary and take ownership when issues arise. What decisions like this tell me is when the code gets tough, they bail. If this were a bug on the Windows side, you bet your bottom dollar they'd be trying to get to the bottom of it. If it's Unity, they'd be hounding Unity for a fix (or fix it themselves if they have direct source access... not sure if Unity gives that option). Even if they put out a "we're sorry, we're working with the Unity team, but for now Linux users are stuck on an older version", fine... but no... they pulled their work as if it never existed and washed their hands.

These developers need more pride in their work. Make a decision and stick with it, come what may.

Transhuman Design has removed the Linux version of BUTCHER due to issues in favour of Steam Play (updated)
20 September 2018 at 11:05 pm UTC Likes: 4

iiariI have zero problem with this at all. If it results in more playable, more reliable titles for Linux players, I'm fine with that. Even better, if word spreads among devs that this is a good approach, hopefully they'll bring over titles they wouldn't have otherwise. Look at Everspace. They almost dropped the Linux version because of platform specific development difficulties. Maybe in the future, such decisions won't need to exist...

I strongly wonder how many of those "platform specific development difficulties" have more to due with Linux being a secondary (or tertiary) thought in the development process than an issue from the get go.

If these developers focus on Windows first, then port their code, the work load is significantly higher than building for all platforms at once.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but most of these games that drop Linux (either before or after release) are games that weren't developing for both platforms in tandem.

Set Phasers to fun! Stage 9 lets you explore the Enterprise-D from Star Trek The Next Generation on Linux
14 August 2018 at 11:39 am UTC

Just curious if it's the Linux build, or just me but...
1) While I can press buttons in the menu at start up, I cannot do so with the pop-up menu in the game itself. To actually quit the game, I had to actually bring up the console (ahhh, the tilde key... joy!) and enter "quit" to exit the game without killing it.
2) Whenever I left-clicked with the mouse (whether on an intractable element or not), my character would turn ~90 degrees suddenly (kinda like how one might turn in a VR game). To be able to interact with anything, I had to left-click-hold (which jumped the camera 90 degrees) then look back at what I want to interact with, then let go of the mouse button.

Is this just me?

SpaceBourne might see a Linux version, according to demand after release
9 August 2018 at 8:01 pm UTC Likes: 1

Patola
melkemindIt would be nice if these companies that want to see "demand" would actually do market research rather than just waiting to see how many people post on an isolated forum thread that many users may never even see.
It incurs additional cost. So the best way to start considering even if the market research for a port would be appropriate is a scenario with no cost that could supposedly could give a good enough approximation of the results.

Counter point to that, though, is if they wait until after release to bother with even looking into a Linux version, then the Linux release would be, at best, months out. This would loose them initial-release sales (seeing as most game distributions are rather unwilling to announce platform releases, only initial ones), as well as risk anyone interested in the game forgetting it even exists.

Developers of the RPG 'Edge Of Eternity' are still waiting on Unity before supporting Linux
9 July 2018 at 2:23 pm UTC Likes: 5

Eike
QuoteThey also said in that post, that they actually dropped some plugins that were blocking them from bringing it to Linux, so that's nice to know.

Sounds like they're serious about it...

If they were serious, why did they initially include those plugins at one point at all? If they were serious, why didn't they fully evaluate the engine they were using and it's ease of port for all platforms they intended to target for. If they were serious, why not just apologize that they screwed up (if Linux was their intent) instead of putting the blame on the engine? If Linux wasn't official or only an experiment, why tease us with a demo? That's like taking a kid down to Orlando Florida, driving past Disney, then mumbling "the car's out gas".

I really don't want to sound like one of "those Linux people" developers are always scared of, but let's face facts here. Linux will not be taken seriously as a game platform if we don't freaking grumble about developers pussyfooting around as they are. Linux as a stretch goal, Linux a little while after the Windows release, all of it excuses by developers who are too scared (whether financially or developmentally) or ignorant. People don't play games on Linux because most anything that looks good (almost) ALWAYS puts us second... and not just second in terms of a few days or weeks, but more often then not, months to YEARS. Who, other than an already converted Linux user, would ever want to consider a platform where the developers are that sketchy?

Personally, I think we should stop with the "at least they're trying" bullshiz and tell them the truth.
You know WHY you see such low sales in your Linux port (that came out months to years later because you didn't know what you were doing)? It's because, if we had any interest in your game at all, we've probably already WATCHED your game on Twitch or YouTube for that entire time. By the time you actually DO release on Linux, most have probably FORGOTTEN you even exist!

I'm not a fool. I know Windows has the biggest market share, but if the developer truly wants to support all three platforms (Win, Mac, Linux), then the hardest part is up front. Pick the tools and libraries/engines that work for all those platforms and develop them AT THE SAME TIME. Sure, it might extend the development time by a few months, so the developer needs to budget for that. If they can't, then they need to just admit that and quit with the "maybe" or "stretch goal" crap because... really... they don't care enough for those extras to begin with and they'll just piss the platform users off.

That's my two cents.

Stonehearth for Linux is cancelled five years after a successful Kickstarter
6 July 2018 at 11:54 pm UTC Likes: 4

soulsourceWhat should I say?
There are two options, basically: Either developers frequently make and test builds for all platforms they are planning to support, or they don't. In the first case they are likely to release for all platforms they were planning, in the latter case those platforms for which they didn't make and test builds frequently will not be supported in the end (unless they invest extra time/money to effectively port their game).

I feel this is key. Those developers that develop for Windows first really only say that for two reasons. 1) They really have NO intention of porting to Linux and really just hope you forget about the project. 2) They have absolutely no idea how complex their project will be and seriously under-estimate a post development port.

I've only backed a couple of Kickstarter games, personally. One of the big things I consider when backing... Are they committing to a same day release (or, have a solid reason for staggering). If Linux is a "stretch goal" with ner a word regarding Linux throughout the description... it's a pass for me.

Open source game engine 'Godot Engine' to get an impressive third-person shooter demo
3 July 2018 at 4:15 pm UTC Likes: 2

I love Godot. I used it for my little platformer in the last Linux Game Jam a few months back and the engine just... worked for me!

Obviously everyone's mileage may vary depending on need, but it's a great engine and I love seeing it get better and better!!

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