Quoting: poiuz

Quoting: F.UltraNo I have no data regarding iOS usage, Android works quite well with OpenGL ES though so I see no reason why the iPad could not have done that aswell. To me Metal is just too much NIH and an attempt to perform vendor lock-in on primarily iOS.

That's like saying Vulkan is redundant. OpenGL ES is just subset of OpenGL, it retains the flaws of the API.

No, no one is saying that Metal isn't better than OpenGL or OpenGL ES. The point is that Metal wasn't that much better than OpenGL or OpenGL ES that Apple had to go full on NIH and further fragment the graphics API market, _unless_ they ofc wanted to ride the wave of vendor lock-in.

Quoting: poiuz

Quoting: F.UltraWhat I did find however was on the Wiki on Metal that Apple announced in 2017 that 148k apps used Metal which is only 9% of the number of apps they have in their app store, so it wasn't like people where rushing out to implement it.

I haven't found concrete numbers, but there are estimates of the available games in the app store: 200,000-800,000. Even taking 800,000 as an estimate (which is unlikely when, 2022 were only 1,783,232 apps in the store, this number comes from Apple) 148,000 would be quite good.

According to Apple, more than 148,000 applications use Metal directly, and 1.7 million use it through high-level frameworks, as of June 2017

It's not limited to games but internally used everywhere.

Yes and that makes it the 9% I wrote earlier. The point being that even 3 full years after the introduction 91% of app-makers still though that OpenGL ES was good enough which means that iOS didn't gain any major benefits over Android by implementing Metal. So that closes the door on "Apple was forced to implement Metal or iOS would be obsolete" that some people throw around (note that I don't accuse you of doing that, the same discussion is happening on Phoronix at the moment).

So Apple didn't _need_ Metal, they could have waited for Vulkan just like Google did. And hadn't they been so hell bent on NIH and vendor lock-in they could have spear-headed the collaborative project to replace OpenGL with a new better API, and that by all means could have been Metal.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: F.UltraWhat I did find however was on the Wiki on Metal that Apple announced in 2017 that 148k apps used Metal which is only 9% of the number of apps they have in their app store, so it wasn't like people where rushing out to implement it.

I'm not sure this is a useful percentage. Most apps don't need any 3D API in the first place, right?

Which kinda is on point no?

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Quoting: poiuz

Quoting: ShmerlTimeline starts with Mantle which presented such ideas before Apple and MS rushed to make NIH knock offs of them. And AMD from the beginning expressed the interest to make it a common API. That's why Mantle later was turned into Vulkan. Basically, collaboration on it could have started from the beginning, if Apple and MS weren't arrogant lock-in proponents who benefit from work of others either way.

Mantle is omitted since it's the starting point for all APIs. AMD themselves provided Microsoft on everything about Mantle to develop Direct3D 12. They don't really cared about an open API, they cared about an API which would boost their GPUs.

Quoting: F.UltraYour timeline is faulty, Vulkan was first announced in July 2014 at the SIGGRAPH conference. And ofc development had been quicker if say Apple and Microsoft had decided to join the development, one cannot just ignore the massive amount of money and resources that those two have compared with Khronos.

Yes, I missed the date. But they didn't announce Vulkan, they announced that work on the next API started. A month after Apple released Metal. Khronos also has a bad history about API announcements (remember Long Peaks?).

According to some (random) opinions, Metal seems to be a just different API and easier to use than Vulkan. It's probably more of a OpenGL replacement than Vulkan, but I can't say much about that. But we know that Vulkan is hard to use.

Quoting: F.UltraAlso I don't see why waiting would have been such a problem, the first wave of games released with Metal came in 2017 anyway since everyone waited to see it stabilize first.

Can you provide a source when it was first used on iOS? Metal started on iOS where performance is much more limited. The impact of OpenGL/driver overhead is much bigger.

No I have no data regarding iOS usage, Android works quite well with OpenGL ES though so I see no reason why the iPad could not have done that aswell. To me Metal is just too much NIH and an attempt to perform vendor lock-in on primarily iOS.

What I did find however was on the Wiki on Metal that Apple announced in 2017 that 148k apps used Metal which is only 9% of the number of apps they have in their app store, so it wasn't like people where rushing out to implement it.

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Quoting: poiuz

Quoting: ShmerlYour timeline is misleading. Both MS and Apple can be blamed for not supporting Vulkan. They did it very deliberately knowing it's being developed, since they did it out of obvious lock-in intent.

Are you serious? My timeline? We are talking about facts (The way it's a fact, that Apple wants to get games on macOS, because they said so). But to spell it out: Apple released Metal two years before Vulkan was released. Or in other words: To support Vulkan Apple would had to wait two whole years.

To signify how much time two years are: How successful would the Steam Deck be if players had to wait two years for any game to be playable? Steam machine ring a bell?

Your timeline is faulty, Vulkan was first announced in July 2014 at the SIGGRAPH conference. And ofc development had been quicker if say Apple and Microsoft had decided to join the development, one cannot just ignore the massive amount of money and resources that those two have compared with Khronos.

Also I don't see why waiting would have been such a problem, the first wave of games released with Metal came in 2017 anyway since everyone waited to see it stabilize first.

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Quoting: Loftyfor some reason i can't get excited about those graphs. Sure new games on ultra high @4k with raytracing are going to be demanding. But i can't shake the feeling that an uber expensive brand new high TDP 7900XTX with TFLOPs to space and back should be able to run these current games around 60FPS without FSR3.

will FS3 be used to justify even more shitty optimisation of AAA titles ?

Honestly AAA gaming is pretty much dead to me right now, it's not the Size of the games, the lacklustre optimisation, the exorbitant pricing models on unfinished releases with DLC being used as a patch, or the not actually owning it, or even the DRM anti-cheat spyware.. let alone the way these companies treat their staff. It's actually because most (not all) of these games frankly suck.

That said, im really enjoying Indie / AA and retro games a heck of a lot more TBH and i dont need FS3 for that.

One thing would be the improved Anti Aliasing that FSR and DLSS brings, that is what makes some people claim that it makes games look better than native. Also if we play with the thought that FSR3 and DLSS3.5 produces an image that is as good or better than native then you can run games at the same FPS but with lower power draw and thus lower temps.

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Quoting: kerossin"Ubuntu Desktop team continues to "grow rapidly"" this is surprising considering their ridiculous and lengthy hiring process.

"they're bringing Netplan to Ubuntu Desktop to "deliver a more unified experience for those managing Ubuntu across both server and desktop"" last time I managed Ubuntu servers I ripped out Netplan and just used systemd-networkd directly. It's just a poorly implemented wrapper around systemd-networkd configs.

The benefit of netplan is that you can switch from systemd-netword to NetManager (and/or the reverse) and still keep the exact same config and syntax.

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Quoting: Guestthanks nvidia for not backporting dlss 3+ to my rtx 2000 series gpu, it is a good lesson for me, to never buy nvidia gpu again

AFAIK some aspects of DLSS3 works on all rtx cards including the 2000 series, and that includes the new Ray Reconstruction in DLSS3.5, it is "only" frame generation that requires the 4000 series (see the table 1.21 into this video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIF91ThXDr8 [External Link]

Quoting: Luke_Nukem

Quoting: Linux_RocksMan, Quake II RTX has native Linux support. Why can't this or Portal? Half-Life 2 and Portal already have native Linux versions. I don't know how modding works internally. But doesn't that automatically help make it possible? </3

Because it is using RTX-remix, it's not being done in source code.

Ah so it's based on the special version of the game and not the common one, well that makes sense.

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Quoting: Linux_RocksMan, Quake II RTX has native Linux support. Why can't this or Portal? Half-Life 2 and Portal already have native Linux versions. I don't know how modding works internally. But doesn't that automatically help make it possible? </3

Make possible yes but the modders are apparently Windows devs and have zero clue or interest on how to code for Linux.

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Quoting: YorimirusAnyone knows what exactly was the issue that prevented the launcher from working? Would like to know what exactly went wrong.

Grogan posted the patch above https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2023/08/ubisoft-connect-broke-again-but-valve-fixed-it-in-proton-experimental/comment_id=247520

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Broffy the Vampire Slayer - Become the thing monsters have nightmares about, a stake-throwing, unholy monster purging, self-resurrecting teenage Slayer.

What really impresses me is that they actually have deep insight into each character so they are not just adding characters at a whim or to make a quick buck but they are actual fans of 80:ies and 90:ies action.

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