Quoting: INSOMNIA_The_Ark

They promised DRM-free version!

We've been talking to Gog for quite some time now for this to happen.

??? :huh:
Things have suddenly got really interesting!

This sounds like some difficulties have arisen.

So… May I inquire as to what is the GOG's response on this? What is their position? When Valve® presented the Proton™ technology GOG had been silent. Does GOG have some plans to wrapping Windows™ games in Proton™ like they are doing with DOS games and DOSBox? Or are they strongly against that? As far as I recall, some games are WINE-wrapped on GOG (like "Flatout 2" ). But, unlike neutral WINE, Proton™ is Valve®-owned and GOG® is trying to be Valve®'s competitor (yeah, those guys are in over their heads; that "FCK DRM" thing was pathetic).

Also, in my impression, GOG is not that eager to take any responsibility for Linux versions at launch: in case something even remotely dubious happens, GOG has only one response -- to deny Linux compatibility altogether (up to the point of removing Linux support at launch day after collecting pre-orders).

What about other DRM-free stores? You know, as much as GOG wants it to be so, "DRM-free /= GOG". How about itch.io? Humble Store?

Quoting: liamdaweI think you're reading something that isn't there. They are making a Linux version, plain and simply.

Or so they say. For all intents and purposes, there is no Linux version and, as time had shown, I'm a so-so prophet and can not see whether game will be or not. So, I'm better play it safe and hold my money.

Quoting: liamdaweThey were generalising about Steam Play being a temp thing *until* we get more games.

Yeah, I also can generalize this: more and more developers will see Linux version delays as something acceptable. It is fine to postpone the porting until the launch (for how long? a month? a year? a decade? a century? a mille… eww, you get it!) because there is always the Proton™ technology to back them up. No need to hurry, right?

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Quoting: liamdawe…their comment about Steam Play is interesting too…

Yeah, definitely! They promised DRM-free version! Now what? Will they bundle Proton™ with their game for us? Well, "temporary solution" my a$$!

Sadly, some of the worst forecasts regarding Proton™ are already materializing. :'(
I'm glad I didn't back them back then. :><:

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Quoting: GuestYou seem to be the tin foil hat kinda guy so I won't respond to everything.

You know, ridiculing those who do not agree with yourself is not really doing you any favors. :|

Quoting: GuestWith everything you said, if the only thing that happens is soften the the shock of newcomers from Windows which grows our platform and makes it more viable, then so be it.

So be it.

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Quoting: GuestIt can very well also on the other side tell dev's that Linux users have interest.

And why should they? They would just get additional (small) money without doing anything.

Quoting: GuestIt doesn't really matter if a file is ELF or Win64, what matters is devs actually taking the time to support us.

IMO, if you actually made your mind to do some job, at least do it properly! If a dev have decided to actually modify a game code in order to add support for another platform, I think it will go for native libs and API's which work 100% of the time instead of deliberately working around WINE/Proton™ limitations (like wrong/incomplite/missing support of some subroutines).

Quoting: GuestI will say, that all the ports I have from VP work great and they are not native.

I only have one VP port: "The Witcher 2" (it lags) and while I didn't witness VP's fiasco firsthand, something tells me someone whose nickname begins with "J" was fired from the job exactly because of it (after that he started to spread this whole "No Witcher III for you because you were a**holes towards CDPR" cool story) and the reputation damage for VP.

Quoting: GuestI have issues with a crap ton of natively supported titles I own.

The only crappy Linux versions I own are "Wasteland 2" (with its "too many opened file descriptors" bug which they didn't bother to fix) and some Humble Bundle garbage ("Shadowgrounds"/"Shadowgrounds Survivor" with their sound engine sh*t-code buffer owerflowing which, again, they refused to fix). Both of these examples speak of developers more than about nativeness of the port.

Quoting: GuestNative doesn't really matter, fully supported by publishers and devs do.

Honestly, do you believe those aforementioned guys would offer better support if they used WINE wrappers instead?
"Eat what has been served and do not complain!" would be their more likely attitude (well, it is basically what we got now).

Quoting: GuestAlso, just because Proton is steam it's based off wine so likely if it works well with Proton it will very likely work well with wine. So if you don't want to use steam the title *should*, in theory, be much better in wine than without Proton.

And where exactly should I get a version to try WINE on? On the nearest BitTorrent tracker site? Or should I actually give my money for the Windows™ version, let's say, on GOG and be counted as a Windows™ user?
It seems something is wrong with all that "Proton™ helps promote Linux" plan.
No, there will not be any direct benefit from the Proton™ technology. The only real good it can provide is to soften the shock for newcomers from the Windows™ so that doing the transition they will not lose 99% of their game library but only 75% or so.

For already owned games Proton™ is fine; for purchasing new games for it -- big NO.

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Quoting: lucifertdarkI think the promise of a Linux native port doesn't matter quite as much as it used to thanks to Steam Play, especially when a Steam Play sale counts as Linux.

Well, it matters for me for several reasons:

• fake "Linux sales" using Proton™ can increase the number of developers saying "Just use Proton™" to those of us who will ask for Linux port (that possibility have been discussed in the notorious thread here) and I'd rather do not allow this to happen;


• Proton™ being just Valve®-rebranded WINE, is bound to be unstable (honestly, I don't expect Valve® to miraculously fix WINE's "eternal alpha-version" state just by renaming it) and one can not expect "Proton-ports" to be stable;


• some of us (myself included) will not ever use Steam™ as we consider it to be DRM, thus Proton-only "Linux port" effectively means no port at all for us and developers will lose our money (yes, just a small portion of the small portion :P, but still…).

Owerall, IMO, one shall buy a promise only if (s)he is prepared to f*ck with WINE in the worst case (but rather likely, like with "The Witcher III" or "Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams" ) scenario.

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Quoting: lucifertdarkThe only game you listed I don't have is Into the Breach, I might be able to pick that up tomorrow.

Quoting: RoosterAccording to the last statement from dev, they are currently working on the Linux version, so that might be something to consider.

Apparently, history doesn't teach anything some people. To promise is not to deliver. There were lots of "Linux coming later" situations (e.g. "Unreal Tournament 3" ) that never delivered. If the money have already been payed, why work then?

That's my POV, anyway (AKA "No Tux == No Bucks" ). Ultimately, it is your call.

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Quoting: qptain NemoWhat makes Galaxy worse than any other installer? I see no issue with the default installer program being a sort of installer-updater-client thing if it's not required for running the game itself. So if somebody does I'd like to know why. Feel free to point out obvious elements, because I have no experience with Galaxy whatsoever.

Firstly that Galaxy is not very stable. It tends to break with updates. Secondly, the Galaxy will not work on anything older than "Windows 7" which amuses oldfags using "Windows 98" to play "Windows 98" compatible game to no end. You can check GOG's galaxy sub-forums and whishlist for more info.
And thirdly, sometimes it is required to play games (multiplayer support). We, Linux users, get watered-down versions with no multiplayer or don't get those games at all.

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Quoting: istispWell, to present you a very relevant example (and I'm surprised Liam hasn't mentioned it in his examples of how harmful DRM can be), it's impossible to use Proton/Wine on games with anti-tamper DRM technology like Denuvo, unless the publisher does the work themselves, which they rarely do.

Nobody guarantees anything with WINE. And personally I couldn't care less about Proton/DXVK deal per se. All of my Windows™ games are from my Windows™ life which ended in 2008.

But don't get me wrong, I'm strongly against DRM, up to the point of refusing anything Steam-related because IMO, Steam is DRM on its own, no matter how weak.

Quoting: istispAlso, DRM-freedom generally aligns with the free open source ideals of Linux, so people who care enough about freedom to use Linux will tend to care enough about DRMs to not want them on their games.

No, not really. I'd say, they are parallel to each other: on GOG there are a lot of pro-DRM-free people who couldn't care less about Linux and here are a lot of locals here who are totally fine with, for example, all Feral-ports tied to Steam and couldn't be launched without Steam-client (some had audacity to call me names for not supporting Steam because my stubbornness to give money to Valve makes me an enemy to all that is Linux in their eyes).

Quoting: istispFinally, Galaxy might be heavily marketed by GOG, but they don't force it down our throats. They would have trouble doing so anyways, as Galaxy isn't even available on Linux, and they always offer a Galaxy-free version of their games on Windows. It's a game client, not a DRM, it is and will always stay entirely optional, and that's the point.

I emphasized the key word. And I should probably add "yet". Truly, in case of Galaxy on Linux one should beware his/her own wishes.

Quoting: C7zGOG has third party tiles(sic) supporting Linux yet their first party titles does not what am i suppose to draw from that conclusion... they only want tux bux, but they themselves can't or won't be bothered in growing/developing the gaming community on Linux. I am all for DRM - FREE but what better place to have it than on Linux Os.

Well, GOG always had "Zero Effort" approach towards Linux. It was a great victory we (or, most likely, Valve® through its actions) managed to convince GOG to start selling existing Linux versions. Their previous stance was "With so many different distros… blah, blah, blah… Not in a foreseeable future."

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Quoting: LeopardHmm , so Russian are pretty uniterested then.

More like Microsoft®-centric. Everything microsoft, no matter how bad it is (Silverlight for the corporate site? Sure! .NET for free MathCAD alternative [External Link]? It couldn't be any other way! Taxes -- the federal site will work only with MS IE 6.0. Bank accounting? You've got the idea…), is treated as a fscing standard and all attempts to point to alternatives are met with ferocious hostility. Like the life depends on it. Twenty years of free Windows (1990-2010) had quite potent impact.

Quoting: Leopardhttps://www.donanimhaber.com/ekran-karti/haberleri/F1-2017-oyunu-Linuxa-geliyor.htm [External Link]

https://www.donanimhaber.com/ekran-karti/haberleri/AMD-RX-480-ile-DOOM-Vulkan-testi-28e-varan-performans-artisi.htm [External Link]

Here, if it is not for Windows, it does not exist. Period. Almost nobody knows Vulkan versions (feral-ports) of some games exist.

Quoting: LeopardAbout Cemu:
No actually. Many people using Cemu for Zelda BOTW and using an AMD cards on Windows , created Linux partitions to run Cemu into Wine with Mesa OGL drivers. AMD Windows OGL drivers are such a disaster.

LOL!
So, Wii U emulator… (didn't dig into Wii U emulation myself) Does it have only OpenGL renderer and no DirectX? Very weird, especially for a Windows™ exclusive emulator!

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Quoting: ColomboHowever, they can enjoy all their games on SteamOS or one of the many distribution, with link to installation and everything.

However they can sometimes enjoy all some of their currently owned games on SteamOS or one of the many distribution and no future Microsoft Store exclusive releases, with link to installation and everything.

Here you go!

Or somehow WINE became stable and is not breaking compatibility with games from release to release? I doubt it.
Even Valve®-branded (notice that Valve is actively erasing everything indicating Linux connection?) WINE is still WINE -- an eternal beta-version with lots of stubs and "fix-me"s and performance regressions. I think gamers will prefer quality, fresh blockbusters and "moar FPS" like they ever were.

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