Quoting: Guest^ You meant corporate support, right?

Corrected, thanks a lot. ;)

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: jensHe wont see your point due to his unconditional love for Open Source and FOSS in general.

This point is not about attitude towards FOSS. That's just how open development operates, bugs are open and you can track progress (unlike blob, closed driven development as can be expected). It doesn't equal a guarantee that your bug will magically get higher priority than otherwise. However, since Mesa developers asked to make a special page just for games, @jaycee can go ahead and use it, before complaining.

@jaycee wrote a concrete example where coperate support worked better for him than FOSS support. You tell him that his experience is wrong and bring up arguments that FOSS support is always superior.

My conclusion, that you have just confirmed:
You don't see his point due to a blind spot in your thinking. Alternatively, you are simply to stubborn to admit that coperate support can have its advantages too (*). ;)

* Which does not exclude advantages of FOSS support. It is not black or white. Both models have their pros and cons. None is perfect.

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Quoting: GuestAnyway, the point was responsiveness of bug reporting. You claimed that Mesa is superior because it's public. As i've just demonstrated, this is not necessarily true.

He wont see your point due to his unconditional love for Open Source and FOSS in general.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: 14AMD GPU experience on Linux isn't attractive.

It's pretty smooth these days for games. And way more attractive than Nvidia integration wise.

Mentioning your less favorite vendor will only start another useless flame war. You could instead try to _only_ point our how happy your are with your choice without any side snitching.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: LeopardNo , it is not. There are many people out who use Windows partition for only Photoshop like programs and gaming on Linux partition and buying Linux only games.

So ; Wine users are mostly much more worse than dual booters.

So, we'll disagree. As long as you dualboot, I also don't see your criticism of Wine as valid even according to your approach. Start with replacing dualbooting with Wine for everything that you have exclusively on Windows, and ditching everything that doesn't work otherwise. Then you can start criticizing Wine as something worse than native approach. Otherwise you are losing forest behind the trees.

Sorry, your discussed quite well till now, but this is just nonsense ;). There are valid reason for dual booting and valid reasons for wine. Both usages should be debatable without excluding opinions due to usage of one or the other.

PS: According to his profile @Leopard does not dual boot ;)
PPS: Just to be sure, me neither :)

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Quoting: Xpanderi think wine also helps with growing linux market share. I mean how many people ask for "I want to switch to linux, but i play this or that game, will it work on linux?" if those said games work good enough a person can try out Linux and probably will buy some native games as well, while growing the Linux market.

Its the chicken-egg problem anyway, we need more users to get somewhere and wine can help with that.


edit: one good example is most of the blizzard games. Thousands of Linux users play them with the help of wine, they can just use it and play their favorite WoW, Diablo or Heartstone while still being on Linux and buying some native linux games, otherwise they would be forced to use Windows.

Yes, sure, these are valid arguments. Don't get me wrong, wine, dxvk etc. are cool projects and should continue to prosper to attract more people to get their loved games over to Linux land. People should just keep in mind that a game bought specifically for wine is a windows sell and won't help to increase Linux sells. Stated differently, (potential) native versions or ports should be strongly preferred, even when released much much later.

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Quoting: ShmerlMarket share doesn't matter currently. Despite its growth, legacy publishers still don't care, because they are legacy and backwards thinking. So market share alone won't help (unless we get to some huge double digits I suppose).

C'on, there is no growth, or just minimal growth. Currently Linux needs all the help it can get to somehow reach 5% or 10% to get some attention of the bigger players. I can understand from your perspective that you don't like the big boys, but Linux needs them to become a serious gaming platform imho.

Quoting: ShmerlFeral and Co. will find something else to do. Like making their own engines or games :)

I'm less optimistic, they will just concentrate their efforts on Mac/iOS and leave Linux for good.

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Quoting: NeverthelessWine gamers will get no support for their platform, but count as Windows users. I think we should always be aware of that.

I'm completely with you here. DXVK is an astonishing project and I'm happy for all the people that can play something like TW3 on Linux, I guess half a year and the experience will be similar to Windows. That said, I'm anxious that Feral, Aspire and VP will just move away from Linux when most current Linux gamers will prefer wine/dxvk. Dunno if having support is enough for the average Linux gamer to buy a game from them and ensuring income. Even if some DRM-free fanatics wont care, loosing Feral and friends would hurt Linux as gaming platform in the long term. It will keep less technical gamers (the big masses) out of Linux because wine/dxvk does require some technical skills. No market share, no investments.

(Claiming that market share is irrelevant is just conspiracy thinking. I'n my opinion it is all about market share. Sure, the pride of certain CEO's do play a role, but in the end it is about money, about ensuring return of and controlling investments.)

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Nice that this one has finally landed in Linux land! I do play SP only, thus a perfect release for me.

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F1 2017 is really fun, assuming that one uses a steering wheel, highly recommended!

(It is also the last session with somewhat cool cars, the introduction of the halo device this year is the end of F1 n my opinion :(, hope they will find a loophole to get rid of this thing again)

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