Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: jensPeople running a FOSS exclusive system should be able to do so. Using non-FOSS software, like me using NVidia drivers and Steam, should also be "just OK" and accepted.

Extreme views "this and that should not be accepted" usually serves no one in the long term but only feeds useless religious discussions.

The discussion was not about what users are installing, but what is acceptable or not for developers to push on users. Something like CUDA from Nvidia should not be acceptable for example. Same goes for any other type of lock-in or exclusivity, which are simply anti-competitive practices. Trying to whitewash such kind of practice serves no good purpose.

It would be nice of you if you would state your personal opinion as such. I respect that you are highly offended by any kind of exclusivity.

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Quoting: Luke_Nukem

Quoting: Brisse

Quoting: elbuglione"some trying to justify exclusives and lock-in as a valid methodology"
Sadly... is valid, because is working!

It has no place in FOSS-philosophy, even when there's a proprietary store front in middle.

People need to stop viewing Linux as FOSS-exclusive. It ain't, and it won't build the momentum required unless big-money gets behind it (as evidenced by Valve pushing it).

Yes. As @mirv already pointed out, it is all about providing choice. Fortunately Linux does that. People running a FOSS exclusive system should be able to do so. Using non-FOSS software, like me using NVidia drivers and Steam, should also be "just OK" and accepted.

Extreme views "this and that should not be accepted" usually serves no one in the long term but only feeds useless religious discussions.

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Quoting: Whitewolfe80

Quoting: GuestYeah, it's sad a tiny vocal minority can give a bad image of the Linux community as a whole. Insulting developers for games, what a shame ! Some people need to grow up :)

I agree 100 percent I do genuinely believe that the people being vocale are the ones that code themselves they see linux as a open easy to develop for platform and anything that does not run flawlessly at release is obiviously down to incompetence or lazyness. I have noticed that the linux community is very militant about many things but linux gaming is one of them just seems to bring out the worst in the harcore linux for life crowds. I get being annoyed a game you paid for doesnt play well with your system at least we have steam refunds, bottom line error reports with crash reports being sent and a description of the game error helpful. Long ramble rant about learning to linux brah not so much.

Yep, the Linux community can be the best, but unfortunately sporadically also the worst to deal with.

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Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: jens

Quoting: lucifertdarkI'm not getting the green screen with the latest patch, could it be your video drivers? I'm using the 390.48 nvidia drivers.

Interesting what causes this. Video driver version would be my first bet too, but I'm also running nvidia driver version 390.42.

390.42 and 390.48 are actually two different driver releases, but I didn't see anything in the changelog that could be relevant.

Ah, thanks a lot for correcting me, missed the difference in that last digit ;). Lets see what happens once negativo17 pushes this version for Fedora.

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Quoting: lucifertdarkI'm not getting the green screen with the latest patch, could it be your video drivers? I'm using the 390.48 nvidia drivers.

Interesting what causes this. Video driver version would be my first bet too, but I'm also running nvidia driver version 390.42.

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Quoting: ArehandoroA bit late maybe, but has someone tried the game now that the patch is official? I get a green screen at the beginning of the mission (cgi intro) and only hear music/voice and see subtitles. After the intro ends the game crashes and exits to the desktop. Have tried to find the logs for the game but strangely it's not where the devs say.

I have the same green cutscenes, the -skipmovies launch option did the trick for me. Not perfect but acceptable.

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Quoting: GuestI'm confused - what are people arguing about?

Just the usual :)
As soon as someone points out that Open Source/FOSS has its weaknesses too some brave FOSS warrior stands up and fights with a knife between its teeth till the last men ;)

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: jensIt would have been a lot more polite if you would have at least acknowledged jaycee's experience. Instead you completely ignored what he said in your direct response and just posted a general essay.

He was answering to my point, not I to his. However, saying that open development "doesn't necessarily help at all" because it doesn't guarantee fast bug fixing was not the topic I was talking about. How fast something is fixed doesn't depend on it.

You really don't like it to give in right ;)

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Quoting: omer666

Quoting: jens

Quoting: GuestAnyway, the point was responsiveness of bug reporting. You claimed that Mesa is superior because it's public. As i've just demonstrated, this is not necessarily true.

He wont see your point due to his unconditional love for Open Source and FOSS in general.

Let me argue that you don't see his point either just because of how you expect him to think. Just because someone has got convictions that you don't share doesn't mean he's always wrong.

Don't worry, I understand his point of view...
Did I said somewhere that @Shmerl is _always_ wrong? He seems an intelligent user and certainly has a good factual knowledge. I don't agree with him on certain points and I guess that I have a different style of communication, though I don't imply (at least I try to) anywhere that he is always wrong and I'm always right.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: jens@jaycee wrote a concrete example where cooperate support worked better for him than FOSS support.

For him, but not for others who had no idea about his bug report, and didn't know whether it was fixed, whether there are workarounds or the bug will be around forever. How would they know, since the whole bug reporting process isn't public? Many probably filed multiple duplicate bug reports for the same problem because of it, wasting theirs and others' time.

So there was nothing to demonstrate how open development is not better than closed one for these matters that I listed above. Whether some bug is fixed faster or slower is a completely separate topic. Others brought above examples of bugs that Nvidia didn't fix for years.

It would have been a lot more polite if you would have at least acknowledged jaycee's experience. Instead you completely ignored what he said in your direct response and just posted a general essay. This gives the impression that you didn't hear/read at all what he said.

Try something like this the next time:
"Nice to read that NVidia directly responded to your requests and that their responses helped you to go on. That said, this style of support completely hides any tracking for others... "
I guess you get my idea. The actual message from your side would be identical _and_ it would be a conversation where both sides see and respect each other.

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