I have a similar issue where when I alt tab out and back into Witcher 3, with (exclusive) fullscreen, this happens:


Clicking the top left corner, where bar is (Enlarge picture), will make game reappear. It's as if the game's output is resized to that bar at top. My workaround for it is using Borderless Fullscreen, which works just fine.

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Quoting: Sojiro84Well, this week I finally got a steam survey. The last time I got one, I was still on Windows. So now finally, since November 2018, I am also counted as a Linux user.

Valve really should just sent out a survey for once to all active users. That way we get a proper look.

I recently logged into Steam on two PCs. Both Linux, and I got the survey on both of them. Either on same day or a day apart, I don't remember.

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Quoting: dubigrasuAnd we're about choices right? If Google's choice is to promote ChromeOS, well, let them.

Where have I said that Google promoting ChromeOS is something I think they should not do, and that I am opposed to them promoting their own product? Rest of your points I don't care for, you lost me between the snarky remarks and "If Linux has merits".

Quoting: LinuxwarperIf I worked for Google I would use Stadia to sell Chromebooks without even blinking.

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Quoting: GuestI know you build a case before about posting Stadia news...but I forgot to be honest and fail to see reason for these kind of news updates on it. Not trying to be an asshole about it, just failing to see the linux connection here.

Stadia does several things that are good for Linux, whether Google intended it or not;

• Vulkan adoption: Ubisoft and Rockstar are among two major companies who have adopted Vulkan. Vulkan adoption is good because it lays the groundwork for native development and because it requires no work for WINE as opposed to DX11 or 12 where DXVK or VK3D is necessary and gives a performance penalty. Speaking of native development, I'd argue it would have been harder for Metro developers to decide for a native release if the necessity for a Vulkan renderer did not exist already (Stadia port).


• Stadia is built on top of Debian. It's to be expected that progress made to Debian for sake of Stadia will come back upstream.


• Stadia will allow you to play games that don't work with Proton because of anticheat. This helps user retention.

The only thing I would be concerned with Stadia is the possibility of it being used for ChromeOS.

Quoting: sudoshredAnd if anyone thinks they own their games on Steam, double check the agreement.

This kind of argument just dilutes the difference between streaming service and Steam/GOG. There are many DRM-free games on Steam, and you can do lots more with them than you ever could with Stadia.And I am pretty confident if Steam goes down, they will likely make it so you can download and be able to play your games without a connection.. So the whole "You don't own your games on Steam either" is just diluting the difference between Stadia and Steam to justify why using Stadia is OK in that regard.
For instance you can copy your DRM free games to a CD. You can't do that with Stadia.

Not arguing for or against Stadia in general but I find the "You don't own your games on Steam either" like a smokescreen. Yes, you don't own them but you can do what I said you can do and that's alot more than a streaming service will allow you.

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Quoting: Liam DaweI just don't get the point of constantly reiterating the same argument about local play though? Stadia was never designed for that and likely never will offer it because ~95% of "PC" gamers wouldn't be able to use what it offers (Linux builds).

drlamb is IMO correct though on what they actually said. More services that work on Linux will help Linux. That shouldn't even be a debate. Faced with working and not working, the service working is a clear advantage. It's pretty weird to think it wouldn't help. Not liking it or not liking how it does it, is different to it not helping Linux gaming further when you look at the whole picture. The same way Proton helps people not lose access to existing games, Stadia helps people play the same games on their various devices as they do on Linux through streaming.

The reason I bring up local play is because I believe Stadia could hurt Linux as much as it helps it. With ChromeOS overtaking Linux and halting the platform's momentum. Yes, it does help Linux with giving you choice to play games that are otherwise unplayable. By also further improving the ecosystem with patches and new development.

Local ports shows how Stadia diverges from what is good for Linux. So Google's intention seem not to help Linux gaming, and in long run Stadia could do alot damage. Linux isn't in a dire situation. Things are improving thanks to Valve and Codeweavers. So we might be risking Linux's chance to be adopted more by using Stadia. If I worked for Google I would use Stadia to sell Chromebooks without even blinking. And when Chromebooks becomes as widespread as Windows, then we will have another competitor to Linux. Google would likely continue to push streaming only game development with Chromebooks, which would also conflict with the idea of Linux becoming popular and having many native local ports.

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Quoting: Liam DaweIt is still pure an absolute conjecture. There are no facts at play here because a lot of games removed from GFN have not given statements as to why. Don't ever act like speculation is a fact, it doesn't make a good argument. There's a reason why GFN has moved to an opt-in basis now, because their original model was clearly not sitting well with a lot of developers.

Do you really think most developers will come out and say they have removed their game from Geforce Now because of Stadia? In the case of Bethesda, do you really think they will come out and say anything about favoring Stadia over Geforce Now? So why is it necessary for statements from developers before it becomes fact? If Nvidia solves issues devs have, which they have and are doing, will games like DOOM come back to Geforce? Most likely not and because of what I said. Time will tell if I am entirely wrong or not. I disagree that it's pure conjecture and leave it at that.

Quoting: Liam DaweWe're not talking about FOSS though. Steam is not FOSS, the majority of games we play are not FOSS. This is not a FOSS vs proprietary argument. GOL is also clearly not a FOSS-only website, the majority of what we cover is actually proprietary, just something to keep in mind there.

I guess bringing FOSS into the picture did not good for point I was trying to make. Though I like FOSS I'm not against proprietary software.

Quoting: Liam DaweYou used a good word there though: choices. Stadia is a choice, another one, and clearly for some people (me included) one that works quite well.

Better than that would be the choice to be able to play the games locally as well as by streaming it. But that does not fit into what Google is pushing with Stadia and ChromeOS. Most Chromebooks seem to be low spec and not well suited for local play.

Quoting: Liam DaweGoogle doesn't need to fund or encourage developers to release games locally and on Linux, why would they? That is entirely besides the point and frankly nonsense to bring up into the argument your trying to make. They run a streaming service, they're obviously focused on that. I guess you were trying to use that to back up your argument here but it's an obvious point about their business model so it fell quite flat.

They don't and I don't expect them to do either.

Quoting: Liam DaweYou have a point there of course. Google are not "proponents" of Linux gaming and I do agree, anyone saying so are wrong. They are now proponents of actual gaming as a whole though, and their service happens to work on Linux and be built with Linux

That my point, which I replied to drlamb who made it seem like Stadia will only help Linux gaming. I disagree and the fact Google is persuing only streaming is proof they want to grow their own gaming space. Which I believe will be Chromebooks running ChromeOS, not Linux.

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Quoting: Liam DaweThe thing is here though, Google funded Gylt development. It's no different than Valve or any other store/console funding their own games and keeping them to their store.

Did they? From what I gleaned it seemed like a partnership and less about Tequilla Works becoming a studio under Google.

GameSkinny: How long has GYLT been in production? Has it always been envisioned as a Stadia exclusive?

Raul Rubio: Around two years. GYLT was our answer when the Stadia team asked what could we bring to the platform then known as Yeti. There was a previous prototype version before Stadia, but GYLT has been designed with Stadia in mind.

Furthermore, Rubio heavily implied that Gylt will come to other platforms based on his answers to questions asked by Eurogamer [External Link]. The fact Google has funded development justifies Google's actions yes, but I don't see how it invalidates my point. Gylt would have been available on Steam and other platforms and playable through Proton if it wasn't for it's exclusivity deal regardless of how it would have turned out without Google's funding.

Quoting: drlambThis is pure conjecture. Nvidia themselves have admitted they needed to work out licensing with publishers. Streaming is a new territory.

Pure conjecture, really? DOOM are among the games removed from GeforceNow. It's known Bethesda are a key player for Stadia. Yet those very same games can be streamed through Remote Play. It's not exactly the same, as you use your own PC, but ultimately you have paid for those games and with Geforce Now you are paying for a service to be able to stream them. Clearly there is licensing to be done, but it seems this became a issue mostly with arrival of Stadia.

And so I disagree. Saying what I said about Stadia making devs remove their game from Geforce Now is pure conjecture because there is licensing issues isn't convincing argument. Because of timing I pointed out, and because publishers and devs can redo their licensing. Except many of them likely won't. Why? Because Google and Stadia will be more lucrative to them than allowing gamers the freedom to stream their games through Geforce Now, a service they aren't currently getting money from.

Quoting: drlambI don't use Windows nor do I want to rent a Windows machine in the cloud just to play a game. GeforceNow is NOT Linux gaming even if it can be accessed via Linux (which atm, it cannot). How does buying a game on steam via GeforceNow benefit Linux gaming at all? Sure, you may eventually be able to access GFN on Linux but a game purchased there will still count as a Windows sale.

I did not bring up Windows to try persuade you to use Windows. What differentiates Linux and Windows more than anything? FOSS. It's not in line with FOSS principles or Linux spirit to remove games from a streaming service so that another one dominates. I'd argue Stadia isn't Linux gaming either. It's Google gaming. Just because Stadia is powered by Debian it does not make it FOSS. If it did, we would have seen Google being proactive about persuading developers to release their games locally too on Linux. Choices, that's another word that sums up Linux.
But Google has not encouraged or funded developers to release their games locally too. Their intention is clear; streaming is way they want it. That's choice your given, take it or leave it.

Metro Exodus is coming to desktop Linux. Discounting any exclusivity deals with google it's up to the developers/publishers. I'd argue that Epic store exclusive games for games/series (Metro) that would have otherwise come to steam/desktop Linux is more harmful to our goal (of Linux gaming). Google is one of the biggest contributors to the Linux kernel/open source in general. While not 100% gaming related, they still do contribute to the platform.

If you trace back Metro release on Linux, it was released alongside Steam machines. Publisher saw a interest in Steam machines and invested. Prior to that, Metro 2033, was not released on Linux alongside other platforms. The fact Metro Exodus is being released on Linux is credit to the developers, not Google. Half Life Alyx and Underlords being released on Linux is credit to Valve. Recently Exodus was released on GOG as well, which further proves the good intentions (Linux and DRMfree release) are with the devs not Google.

Just because Google is contributing to Linux kernel/open source it does not mean they are proponents of Linux gaming. They are of Google/ChromeOS gaming. There lies the difference. Should I start thinking Microsoft is good for desktop Linux simply because they use Linux and are contributing software (open source) to areas that benefits their business? No, they are in it for their own interest, just like Google. Stadia is streaming only service for similar reason many Microsoft apps are not on Linux, and DirectX is only available for WSL2.

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Quoting: drlambHere's my thoughts on why I use Stadia. Stadia is Linux and DOES help Linux gaming. It's up to developers/publishers to bring their games to desktop Linux.

It also hurts Linux gaming too and could become a big threat to Linux adoption via ChromeOS in future. In your post you said native port is better than a proton release, and a supported Proton is better than a Stadia release. Gylt, a indie game, is exclusive to Stadia but will likely come to Steam. If it was already on Steam, you could most likely be able to play it exceptionally well with Proton. If it wasn't exclusive to Stadia, it could also potentially be released natively by developers themselves or by Ethan Lee porting the game.

Moreover PC gaming encompasses all major OSes. On Windows Stadia has made developers remove their games from Geforce Now. Why is this important? Well if Geforce Now was available on Linux, and it's possible it will be (with Valve's encouraging Nvidia), all those games being removed from the streaming service would have affected Linux users too. Geforce Now was launched 2015, Stadia 2019. In 2020 was when most publishers and developers started removing their games from Geforce Now.

Stadia games being released natively for Linux would work against Stadia. Google wants people to stream their games with Stadia, not play them locally. You could be lenient on Google and say Valve isn't encouraging developers to release their games on Linux, so Google should be in the clear, except Valve has released their games natively for Linux and are making big contributions to the platform.

EDIT: You are partially right though in saying it does help Linux through Vulkan adoption. But I could and have argued the opposite of that statement too.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyI'm actually hoping for ChromeOS to prosper. Oh, sure, it's not precisely Linux--but it's a lot closer than Android. It's basically Linux crippled. For Google to expand it beyond its niche, one thing they'll probably need to do is expand its capabilities by bringing more of Linux back in. It's going to be really hard for them to end up with a ChromeOS that runs things that can't be made to run in Linux. The bottom line for me is, growth in ChromeOS reduces the effectiveness of Windows lock-in and network effects, and does so with an OS that is basically Linux.
And as you note, it is currently smaller than Linux proper. It is blocked by the same lock-out barriers Linux is blocked by, and unless and until it gets a far, far larger market share its expansion is going to have to involve getting rid of them for all, not just for ChromeOS. When you're tiny and try to create lock-in, you just get whacked by the network effects of the bigger fish--you actually lock yourself out.
So looking at Stadia--sure, Stadia is potentially a tool for growing ChromeOS. But it is to the exact same extent a tool for growing Linux, and for that matter MacOS. And it's going to have to stay that way to work; they might be able to close it down and exclude other platforms if ChromeOS gets to, I dunno, 30% of the desktop. Talk to me again when we're in that kind of territory. In the mean time, Stadia is a cross-platform thing and an illustration of the kinds of tactics Google will need to use to grow ChromeOS, which are essentially the same ones proper Linux tends to use--encouraging cross-platform things so that the playing field with Windows is more level.

I think Linux has a real chance to be used more with things are going, with Proton, Valve and Vulkan. If ChromeOS is marketed towards gamers more heavily, it will without a doubt take users away from proper Linux. At same time you could be right, the hold Microsoft has on the industry could be to hard to break with Valve alone.I find it hard to believe that Ubisoft chose Vulkan for their games simply because of performance it gave. Stadia had to be another reason why they chose it.

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Quoting: Patola* jealous of AMD GPU owners * :dizzy:

Get GreenwithEnvy!:P

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